Benefits Again

[winjim]

Why is the. decision on the rights, or, wrongs of benefit fraud dependant on which political party or government one supports, surely, benefit fraud is wrong, regardless of who you vote for or who is in power?

There's a massive imbalance in terms of scale, morality and the power dynamic between fraud by the state against the citizens, and fraud by the citizens against the state.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Don't you get that we are all victims of benefits fraud?

Yebbut at a cost of pennies while the State pockets billions from stuff, in particular Pension Credit, that goes unclaimed.

It's a bit like calling the police 'cos a pair of drunks are doing 'handbags' at 23:30 on Friday/Payday.

Effort is diverted from where it might produce more bangs per buck.

 

[Pale Rider]

Yebbut at a cost of pennies while the State pockets billions from stuff, in particular Pension Credit, that goes unclaimed.

It's a bit like calling the police 'cos a pair of drunks are doing 'handbags' at 23:30 on Friday/Payday.

Effort is diverted from where it might produce more bangs per buck.

Stealing often tens of thousands, cumulatively over years, is hardly analogous with routine booze fuelled weekend violence.

Nor is there any link between thieves and those who do not claim benefits to which they are entitled.

 

[newfhouse]

we are all victims of benefits fraud

Ain’t that the truth.


View: https://twitter.com/emilythornberry/status/1572982460614586370?s=61&t=IaNHN0MzKohAo3Ktl0DsFQ

 

[BoldonLad]

There's a massive imbalance in terms of scale, morality and the power dynamic between fraud by the state against the citizens, and fraud by the citizens against the state.

So theft or fraud perpetrated on someone better off than you is ok? Where do you draw the line?

 

[Beebo]

Would you shop a friend who didn’t pay VAT on an extension. Or someone renting a room on Airbnb without informing HMRC.
I know plenty of self employed people who are skimming off the top.

 

[Deleted member 28]

Would you shop a friend who didn’t pay VAT on an extension. Or someone renting a room on Airbnb without informing HMRC.
I know plenty of self employed people who are skimming off the top.

As long as they don't look at their mobile whilst stationery In a traffic queue they should be safe.

 

[winjim]

So theft or fraud perpetrated on someone better off than you is ok? Where do you draw the line?

I didn't say 'better off'. I said 'the state'. And I didn't say it was 'ok', I pointed out that it's an asymmetric relationship.

Our current prime minister was part of a team that played a role in, and greatly benefited from, crashing the economy of the entire developed world, is worth in the region of a billion pounds and holds the highest elected office in the land but sure, let's go after Dave from down the pub who does a bit of cash in hand plastering when he's not looking after his disabled kid.


Edit: sorry, it's not an elected office is it, he's First Lord of the Treasury who is appointed by the reigning monarch. My mistake but I'm not convinced that makes it any better.

 

[BoldonLad]

I didn't say 'better off'. I said 'the state'. And I didn't say it was 'ok', I pointed out that it's an asymmetric relationship.

Our current prime minister was part of a team that played a role in, and greatly benefited from, crashing the economy of the entire developed world, is worth in the region of a billion pounds and holds the highest elected office in the land but sure, let's go after Dave from down the pub who does a bit of cash in hand plastering when he's not looking after his disabled kid.


Edit: sorry, it's not an elected office is it, he's First Lord of the Treasury who is appointed by the reigning monarch. My mistake but I'm not convinced that makes it any better.

No need to apologise, it is not relevant in my opinion.

I don’t see that one set of people thieving justifies a different set of people thieving.

I didn’t vote for them by the way.

 

[Bromptonaut]

I know this man who got sacked from work for always having huge chunks of time off. His daughter has autism so they get benefits for her. He claims mental health so on some kind of disability allowance. The fact is he’s working cash in hand for a small building company. Completely screwing the system. He’s one of many thousands executing that old trick. It’s hard to stop though.

Whether he's allowed to earn, and if so how much, depends what sort of 'disability allowance' he's claiming.

PIP/DLA are not means tested. I've worked in the past with people getting one or the other and in very well paid employment. UNIversal Credit and ESA both allow some earnings too.

I'm not saying the system is not being screwed just that there's not enough evidence to say for certain that it is.

 

[winjim]

No need to apologise, it is not relevant in my opinion.

I don’t see that one set of people thieving justifies a different set of people thieving.

I didn’t vote for them by the way.

At least partly because if the scale of benefit fraud by the citizen is more than say an order of magnitude less than the scale of financial mismanagement and fraud by the state then it becomes a victimless crime. There's no point grassing up Dave the plasterer for a few grand if the state is pissing away billions.

 

[BoldonLad]

At least partly because if the scale of benefit fraud by the citizen is more than say an order of magnitude less than the scale of financial mismanagement and fraud by the state then it becomes a victimless crime. There's no point grassing up Dave the plasterer for a few grand if the state is pissing away billions.

Victimless crime? Bit like insurance fraud then. 😂

 

[Bromptonaut]

Victimless crime? Bit like insurance fraud then. 😂

If people are taking the piss then benefit fraud absolutely should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Single Mum who has a boyfriend staying over a few times too often much less so.

Given my work DWP mess ups are something I see far too often.

 

[BoldonLad]

If people are taking the piss then benefit fraud absolutely should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Single Mum who has a boyfriend staying over a few times too often much less so.

Given my work DWP mess ups are something I see far too often.

I don’t disagree.

 

[winjim]

Whether he's allowed to earn, and if so how much, depends what sort of 'disability allowance' he's claiming.

PIP/DLA are not means tested. I've worked in the past with people getting one or the other and in very well paid employment. UNIversal Credit and ESA both allow some earnings too.

I'm not saying the system is not being screwed just that there's not enough evidence to say for certain that it is.

DLA should be helping to bring your lifestyle up to the level you'd have if it wasn't for your disability, not simply providing some meagre minimal existence.

And it's often things people might not think about. For example we need to buy a zillion brands of expensive and different flavoured toothpaste. It's not always as simple as it might seem.