Priti Nazi....

[Fab Foodie]

This will be interesting for all sides in the debate….
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ants-not-real-refugees?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

[Pale Rider]

This will be interesting for all sides in the debate….
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ants-not-real-refugees?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Not really, everyone knows that about 75% of those arriving at a beach near year you are males aged between about 18 and 39.

Most people would agree with Patel that young unaccompanied males are more likely to be economic migrants than people seeking protection from harm.

Still, I was pleased to see dear old David Blunkett is still on the go.

 

[AndyRM]

There are many reasons young unaccompanied males could be trying to escape their countries and I would hazard a guess that making money isn't necessarily the primary driver.

 

[Pale Rider]

There are many reasons young unaccompanied males could be trying to escape their countries and I would hazard a guess that making money isn't necessarily the primary driver.

From what we can gather it is usually a financial transaction - the families go into debt with organised criminal groups to secure passage on the basis the traveller will be able to earn good money on arrival in his selected country.

Which doesn't make the travellers bad people, but a responsible immigration system will have different rules for economic migrants and those seeking protection from harm.

 

[Bromptonaut]

From what we can gather it is usually a financial transaction - the families go into debt with organised criminal groups to secure passage on the basis the traveller will be able to earn good money on arrival in his selected country.

Which doesn't make the travellers bad people, but a responsible immigration system will have different rules for economic migrants and those seeking protection from harm.

Modern slavery type smuggling, as with the Vietnamese who died at Purfleet, will follow the debt model but those people will go into whatever has been arranged for them. It might be nail bars, cannabis farming or prostitution. Straight into the black economy; no need to claim Asylum.

Practically all of those on small boats claim asylum. They are then subject to a system that will decide whether they have a justified claim to protection from harm or not. If that system were made to work, including a fair and independent appeals process, there'd be less controversy about asylum accommodation.

 

[Pale Rider]

Modern slavery type smuggling, as with the Vietnamese who died at Purfleet, will follow the debt model but those people will go into whatever has been arranged for them. It might be nail bars, cannabis farming or prostitution. Straight into the black economy; no need to claim Asylum.

Practically all of those on small boats claim asylum. They are then subject to a system that will decide whether they have a justified claim to protection from harm or not. If that system were made to work, including a fair and independent appeals process, there'd be less controversy about asylum accommodation.

All very interesting, but it misses Patel's point.

The asylum system can only deal with those who apply to it.

As she says, the vast majority are young males who are clearly economic migrants.

Your assertion that those arriving on the beaches have not paid for their passage is a hard one to verify.

They may not be being forced into slavery, which I reckon makes it even more likely they will have paid a criminal gang for their passage.

 

[Archie_tect]

All very interesting, but it misses Patel's point.

The asylum system can only deal with those who apply to it.

As she says, the vast majority are young males who are clearly economic migrants.

Your assertion that those arriving on the beaches have not paid for their passage is a hard one to verify.

They may not be being forced into slavery, which I reckon makes it even more likely they will have paid a criminal gang for their passage.

Lots of assertions and assumptions... but no facts to consider.

The UK border control should already know so we don't have to guess... the Home Secretary doesn't know because the system isn't set up yet. The Border Control has lost 50% of its workforce since 2017. People seeking asylum from any of the NE ports are held in detention in Middlesbrough- some of them have been locked up without any liberty for years without representation or hope of being allowed entry.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

The asylum system can only deal with those who apply to it.

From Jan - Sep 2020, about 98% of those arriving by boat applied for asylum (according to the Director of UK Visa & Immigration).

the vast majority are young males who are clearly economic migrants.

What's the source for this?
(Although if they're clearly economic migrants their asylum application will fail anyway.)

 

[Pale Rider]

From Jan - Sep 2020, about 98% of those arriving by boat applied for asylum (according to the Director of UK Visa & Immigration).




What's the source for this?
(Although if they're clearly economic migrants their asylum application will fail anyway.)

The source is the UK Border Agency which is who Patel was quoting.

As a rough and ready guide, you also only have to look at footage of the boats arriving to see the vast majority of passengers are young males.

Lots of assertions and assumptions... but no facts to consider.

The UK border control should already know so we don't have to guess... the Home Secretary doesn't know because the system isn't set up yet. The Border Control has lost 50% of its workforce since 2017. People seeking asylum from any of the NE ports are held in detention in Middlesbrough- some of them have been locked up without any liberty for years without representation or hope of being allowed entry.

Do you think it likely young unaccompanied males are economic migrants or genuine asylum seekers?

Why do you think so many deliberately arrive with no papers?

It's because they know their country of origin would betray their claim for asylum.

 

[Bromptonaut]

All very interesting, but it misses Patel's point.

The asylum system can only deal with those who apply to it.

As she says, the vast majority are young males who are clearly economic migrants.

Your assertion that those arriving on the beaches have not paid for their passage is a hard one to verify.

They may not be being forced into slavery, which I reckon makes it even more likely they will have paid a criminal gang for their passage.

The report @Fab Foodie linked states that 98% of those arriving by small boat claim asylum so your point about The asylum system can only deal with those who apply to it doesn't stack up.

Whatever Ms Patel (or you) assert age and sex are not by a long chalk proof of being eco-migrants rather than people seeking refuge. The main thrust of the Guardian article is about getting Patel to stand up her assertion that they're not seeking protection. As has been repeatedly pointed out there are all sorts of reasons for young men being to the fore. Using people in that cohort as 'scouts' is as old as humanity itself. They may also be subject to punishment or conscription whether by a recognised government or insurgents of one form or another. If they're from Syria, Iraq, Afghan or Yemen are they not self evidently fleeing persecution?

Of course they have to pay for their passage - except those that steal a fishing boat or leisure craft. Apparently it's cheaper on a dinghy than in a lorry.

 

[Bromptonaut]

The source is the UK Border Agency which is who Patel was quoting.

As a rough and ready guide, you also only have to look at footage of the boats arriving to see the vast majority of passengers are young males.



Do you think it likely young unaccompanied males are economic migrants or genuine asylum seekers?

Why do you think so many deliberately arrive with no papers?

It's because they know their country of origin would betray their claim for asylum.

How do you know they arrive without papers?

Where is your evidence?

I'm sorry but you've swallowed the Tories story hook, line and sinker.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

The source is the UK Border Agency which is who Patel was quoting.

As a rough and ready guide, you also only have to look at footage of the boats arriving to see the vast majority of passengers are young males.

I accept the majority are males, I'm less convinced by the statement that "... the vast majority are young males who are clearly economic migrants." That's what I'm seeking a source for.
(Note that rejection of an asylum application is not proof that the applicant was an economic migrant.)

 

[Rusty Nails]

As she says, the vast majority are young males who are clearly economic migrants.

If it is so clear to you as a distant observer via news reports then it should be very easy for her as Home Secretary, with a huge number of officials to support her, to verify the proof of this. Surely it is in her interests to clear this up with verifiable facts, put into the public domain, so she cannot be accused of making stuff up to promote her hard line stance.

 

[Salty seadog]

Not really, everyone knows that about 75% of those arriving at a beach near year you are males aged between about 18 and 39.

Most people would agree with Patel that young unaccompanied males are more likely to be economic migrants than people seeking protection from harm.

Still, I was pleased to see dear old David Blunkett is still on the go.

How does everyone know that?

Not even the government know that. Is it a case of perception being reality? Headlines in the sun maybe?

 

[newfhouse]

How does everyone know that?

From the Gospel of St. Wetherspoon.
“Well known facts require no evidence.”