A bit rude?

[farfromtheland]

The parallels between school teaching and the police are in my mind too...
...I continue to think it is understandable why police culture as a whole leans towards the authoritarian. But I think teaching culture has shifted over the decades. In days gone by, the approach was largely to beat the kids into submission, and now, there is much better understanding of achieving the desired behaviours by subtler and better methods. So there is hope the police too can change; but only so far, within the parameters of the job we ask them to do.

Let's have better methods please, but not necessarily subtler ones. Behaviour management in schools has not necessarily moved towards logical explanation of the needs for reasonable conflict resolution. Some schools are enforcing stricter uniform codes as though these were fundamental to deeper disciplinary issues. Many primary schools, and I've taught in a few of them, use emotional re-inforcement - children are made to feel secure or insecure according to whether they conform to a code. The code itself is not always explicit. Authoritarianism of a subtle kind becomes internalised. Positive behaviour re-inforcement is no substitute for mutually understood boundaries.

When conflict follows in Secondary schools and these behaviouristic methods fail, then there isn't much scope for reason and fairness - ideas that take longer to develop.

 

[newfhouse]

I don't know but clearly the Police did.

Do you really want to live in the sort of country where the police assault people for "failing the attitude test" and then escape sanction for doing so?

If so, I think your wish was granted some time ago.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Do you really want to live in the sort of country where the police assault people for "failing the attitude test" and then escape sanction for doing so?

If so, I think your wish was granted some time ago.

TBF, he voted for it!

 

[swansonj]

It's worth in this case stopping to consider who is trying to influence whose behaviour and by what methods.

I agree. We like to think that we ask the police to enforce the law. But there's a vast amount of discretion involved in how rigorously to enforce laws, which laws, on which people, and when to take action that is not tied to specific laws but is in the name of maintaining a civil society. I think there's a really interesting and complex set of issues around how that discretion gets exercised - how far the police are expressing their own wishes and how far they are following the will of society, and which bits of society that is, and how healthy that is for the various bits of society.

 

[Fab Foodie]

I agree. We like to think that we ask the police to enforce the law. But there's a vast amount of discretion involved in how rigorously to enforce laws, which laws, on which people, and when to take action that is not tied to specific laws but is in the name of maintaining a civil society. I think there's a really interesting and complex set of issues around how that discretion gets exercised - how far the police are expressing their own wishes and how far they are following the will of society, and which bits of society that is, and how healthy that is for the various bits of society.

And how much society is prepared to pay for what it thinks it wants....

 

[Deleted member 28]

TBF, he voted for it!

🤣
No Police brutality during the '70's then?
You Clown!

 

[Unkraut]

For anyone to try and justify this behaviour is pretty abhorrent, ...

No-one has done that so far.

... especially when they claim to not be victim blaming but go on to do exactly that.

That was aimed at me. Let me ask you a question. If Duff had been an anti-vaxxer/UKIP/Brexiteer/keep immigrants out devotee, had acted in precisely the same way towards the police, sullen and uncooperative, would the thread run as this one has, or would the level of sympathy be somewhat diminished?

 

[newfhouse]

That was aimed at me. Let me ask you a question. If Duff had been an anti-vaxxer/UKIP/Brexiteer/keep immigrants out devotee, had acted in precisely the same way towards the police, sullen and uncooperative, would the thread run as this one has, or would the level of sympathy be somewhat diminished?

Police using arbitrary punishment and assault is the issue, not the supposed political leanings of the victim.

 

[mudsticks]

No-one has done that so far.

That was aimed at me. Let me ask you a question. If Duff had been an anti-vaxxer/UKIP/Brexiteer/keep immigrants out devotee, had acted in precisely the same way towards the police, sullen and uncooperative, would the thread run as this one has, or would the level of sympathy be somewhat diminished?

From me, no one should be treated like that in police custody.

It's completely unprofessional, and breaches the code of trust where we are policed by consent.

She wasn't 'sullen and uncoperative' she knew her rights and stood up for them, whilst informing another citizen of their rights..

You think the police should be able to do whatever they like to you, in custody if you don't smile sweetly at them, and decline to give them info they have no immediate right to.

The hearing / tribunal found the same.

What's so hard to understand.
You're just doubling down on the victim blaming.


It's not a good look , but hey why would you care..

Until it was your daughter of course..

 

[Ian H]

... sullen and uncooperative...

Where did this description come from?

 

[FishFright]

Where did this description come from?

From the well developed "making stuff up" part of his brain.

 

[mudsticks]

From the well developed "making stuff up" part of his brain.

Well chances are she was both.

I mean you've seen these feminist types right. ??

 

[qigong chimp]

I think that loophole's being closed by the Police Crimes and Sullenness Bill.

 

[mudsticks]

I think that loophole's being closed by the Police Crimes and Sullenness Bill.

Ah the joys of mask wearing..

No one can see if I'm grinning inanely..

Or mouthing hexes..

 

[Milkfloat]

No-one has done that so far.

That was aimed at me. Let me ask you a question. If Duff had been an anti-vaxxer/UKIP/Brexiteer/keep immigrants out devotee, had acted in precisely the same way towards the police, sullen and uncooperative, would the thread run as this one has, or would the level of sympathy be somewhat diminished?

Yes they have and you did it again.
As others have said the Police need to behave correctly and legally no matter who they are dealing with.