These Covid Polices Are Going Well .....

farfromtheland

Regular AND Goofy
Overwhelming majority of people on public transport, in shops and at work are wearing masks here, I'm glad to see. Public opinion outpacing politics.
 

MrGrumpy

New Member
It’s been proven that the latest variant is less deadly than Delta & many more are jabbed up to 2 & 3 yet Scotland & Wales are bed wetters hiding behind the sofa double masked.
You really don’t get the bigger picture do you ? It’s not necessary all about hospitalisation although that might come . I reckon going on what’s already clearly happening in the large company I work for is the number of folk isolating , it’s effecting business functioning ?! 100 train services cancelled yesterday by ScotRail due to staff with covid or isolating. Tip of the ice berg !
 
You really don’t get the bigger picture do you ? It’s not necessary all about hospitalisation although that might come . I reckon going on what’s already clearly happening in the large company I work for is the number of folk isolating , it’s effecting business functioning ?! 100 train services cancelled yesterday by ScotRail due to staff with covid or isolating. Tip of the ice berg !
So, even if we do a trade off between far more infectious but possibly less dangerous, we end up with a higher sickness rate amongst medical workers because of the higher R rate (10% nationally, over 13% in the worst affected area, London) and higher numbers of people admitted to hospital. With fewer people to care for them, etc....
 

Rusty Nails

Oh yes he is!
It’s been proven that the latest variant is less deadly than Delta & many more are jabbed up to 2 & 3 yet Scotland & Wales are bed wetters hiding behind the sofa double masked.
The judgement in Wales, Scotland and NI (and a growing number of countries around Europe) is made due to caution to avoid over-stretching the health services and not out of fear of the virus itself. Johnson would do exactly the same, but he is afraid of getting another kicking from the hard right in his own party.
It is easy to criticise the Covid precautions when you have no consideration for anyone but yourself and no responsibility for anyone else.

It may turn out that there is over-caution, or not, but it is a huge decision to have to make and I cannot blame governments for making the immediate safety of their people a priority, although there are obvious knock-on consequences wrt to other illnesses and the economy which will have to come into the equation.

Your frankly pathetic mixed metaphors are clearly designed to show you as a brave fighter against authoritarianism, and if that makes you feel a little bit better about yourself fine, but sometimes minority views are minority views for a good reason.
 

mjr

Regular
Your frankly pathetic mixed metaphors are clearly designed to show you as a brave fighter against authoritarianism, and if that makes you feel a little bit better about yourself fine, but sometimes minority views are minority views for a good reason.
A brave fighter against authoritarianism would mask up now because it's clearly a rational minimal precaution, not go unmasked just because nanny says he can!
 

farfromtheland

Regular AND Goofy
I'll also say, more controversially, that vaccination can protect the individual but there is not much evidence, if any, that it prevents transmission.
 
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FishFright

FishFright

Active Member
I'll also say, more controversially, that vaccination can protect the individual but there is not much evidence, if any, that it prevents transmission.

Use Google Scholar and there are pages of peer reviewed papers that lean strongly towards it doing thing , and a few that say the effects are low too.

Google Scholar is very handy for sorting the wheat from the loony I reckon types
 

mjr

Regular
Wearing a mask largely protects others. I think it is effectively an act of social responsibility rather than personal protection. Anyway, mostly harmless, so why not, except for bravado?
It depends what you mean by "largely" with later studies being much more encouraging about protection for the wearer too.

And, yes, for most people, as you say, why not?
 

mjr

Regular
Use Google Scholar and there are pages of peer reviewed papers that lean strongly towards it doing thing , and a few that say the effects are low too.

Google Scholar is very handy for sorting the wheat from the loony I reckon types
It reduces, doesn't it? Not prevent, but no one much expected prevent.
 

farfromtheland

Regular AND Goofy
It reduces, doesn't it? Not prevent, but no one much expected prevent.
Yes I think that 'reduces' is a fair description. I reckon the media are presenting vaccination rather strongly as prevention though. Vaccination in most circumstances has reduced severity - a great thing for the NHS. The Omicron variant has many spike detail differences and I think the jury is out as to whether existing Moderna or Pfizer vaccine antibodies can respond to these - only in vitro results have been quoted so far. Astra-Zeneca with a demonstrated immune T cell reaction looks to be better at that long term.

I always seek to look at original research data as far as possible, rather than any internet providers' summaries. When I worked for a medical school library this was easier. Please show me any recent research that I may have missed!
 
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mjr

Regular
Yes I think that 'reduces' is a fair description. I reckon the media are presenting vaccination rather strongly as prevention though.
I don't know what idiot media you are watching, as I think most have been pretty consistent about this. Three random snippets:

ITV: "the vaccine isn't as effective in preventing an initial infection" https://www.itv.com/news/2021-12-22...icron-appears-to-be-lower-compared-with-delta

BBC: "Individuals who have had two vaccine doses can be just as infectious as those who have not been jabbed." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59077036

euronews: "We must be aware that even triple-vaccinated are likely to transmit the disease…" https://www.euronews.com/next/2021/...stop-the-new-covid-variant-warns-biontech-ceo
 

farfromtheland

Regular AND Goofy
I haven't been watching any idiot media, don't have telly or youtube at the moment. I've seen quite a few adverts on bus stops. Boosters are being pushed very hard.

I've listened to a lot of Radio 4. 'More or Less' used to analyse the data pretty well, but seem to be letting it ride more now.
 

Rusty Nails

Oh yes he is!
I haven't been watching any idiot media, don't have telly or youtube at the moment. I've seen quite a few adverts on bus stops. Boosters are being pushed very hard.

I've listened to a lot of Radio 4. 'More or Less' used to analyse the data pretty well, but seem to be letting it ride more now.
Are those adverts on bus stops saying that boosters prevent infection?
 
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