farfromtheland
Regular AND Goofy
Overwhelming majority of people on public transport, in shops and at work are wearing masks here, I'm glad to see. Public opinion outpacing politics.
These Covid Polices Are Going Well .....
- Thread starter FishFright
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MrGrumpy
Regular
You really don’t get the bigger picture do you ? It’s not necessary all about hospitalisation although that might come . I reckon going on what’s already clearly happening in the large company I work for is the number of folk isolating , it’s effecting business functioning ?! 100 train services cancelled yesterday by ScotRail due to staff with covid or isolating. Tip of the ice berg !
deptfordmarmoset
Über Member
So, even if we do a trade off between far more infectious but possibly less dangerous, we end up with a higher sickness rate amongst medical workers because of the higher R rate (10% nationally, over 13% in the worst affected area, London) and higher numbers of people admitted to hospital. With fewer people to care for them, etc....
OP
OP
FishFright
Well-Known Member
For a given value of proven (small) and given value of fear masquerading as machismo (HUGE)
Rusty Nails
Country Member
The judgement in Wales, Scotland and NI (and a growing number of countries around Europe) is made due to caution to avoid over-stretching the health services and not out of fear of the virus itself. Johnson would do exactly the same, but he is afraid of getting another kicking from the hard right in his own party.
It is easy to criticise the Covid precautions when you have no consideration for anyone but yourself and no responsibility for anyone else.
It may turn out that there is over-caution, or not, but it is a huge decision to have to make and I cannot blame governments for making the immediate safety of their people a priority, although there are obvious knock-on consequences wrt to other illnesses and the economy which will have to come into the equation.
Your frankly pathetic mixed metaphors are clearly designed to show you as a brave fighter against authoritarianism, and if that makes you feel a little bit better about yourself fine, but sometimes minority views are minority views for a good reason.
mjr
Active Member
A brave fighter against authoritarianism would mask up now because it's clearly a rational minimal precaution, not go unmasked just because nanny says he can!
farfromtheland
Regular AND Goofy
farfromtheland
Regular AND Goofy
I'll also say, more controversially, that vaccination can protect the individual but there is not much evidence, if any, that it prevents transmission.
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OP
OP
FishFright
Well-Known Member
Use Google Scholar and there are pages of peer reviewed papers that lean strongly towards it doing thing , and a few that say the effects are low too.
Google Scholar is very handy for sorting the wheat from the loony I reckon types
mjr
Active Member
It depends what you mean by "largely" with later studies being much more encouraging about protection for the wearer too.
And, yes, for most people, as you say, why not?
mjr
Active Member
It reduces, doesn't it? Not prevent, but no one much expected prevent.
farfromtheland
Regular AND Goofy
Yes I think that 'reduces' is a fair description. I reckon the media are presenting vaccination rather strongly as prevention though. Vaccination in most circumstances has reduced severity - a great thing for the NHS. The Omicron variant has many spike detail differences and I think the jury is out as to whether existing Moderna or Pfizer vaccine antibodies can respond to these - only in vitro results have been quoted so far. Astra-Zeneca with a demonstrated immune T cell reaction looks to be better at that long term.
I always seek to look at original research data as far as possible, rather than any internet providers' summaries. When I worked for a medical school library this was easier. Please show me any recent research that I may have missed!
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mjr
Active Member
I don't know what idiot media you are watching, as I think most have been pretty consistent about this. Three random snippets:
ITV: "the vaccine isn't as effective in preventing an initial infection" https://www.itv.com/news/2021-12-22...icron-appears-to-be-lower-compared-with-delta
BBC: "Individuals who have had two vaccine doses can be just as infectious as those who have not been jabbed." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59077036
euronews: "We must be aware that even triple-vaccinated are likely to transmit the disease…" https://www.euronews.com/next/2021/...stop-the-new-covid-variant-warns-biontech-ceo
farfromtheland
Regular AND Goofy
I haven't been watching any idiot media, don't have telly or youtube at the moment. I've seen quite a few adverts on bus stops. Boosters are being pushed very hard.
I've listened to a lot of Radio 4. 'More or Less' used to analyse the data pretty well, but seem to be letting it ride more now.
I've listened to a lot of Radio 4. 'More or Less' used to analyse the data pretty well, but seem to be letting it ride more now.
Rusty Nails
Country Member
Are those adverts on bus stops saying that boosters prevent infection?
