FREEDOM!! WE ARE FREE!

[winjim]

Can't see too many of those people going to the above activities can you?

So to confirm, in order for the clinically vulnerable and anyone like you ALL indoor spaces should be mask wearing venues?

Pubs, clubs, cinemas, sports arena concourse areas, concerts etc?

You don't think clinically vulnerable people should go to concerts? What ableist nonsense is that? That's not freedom.

But, there are some indoor spaces where mask wearing was never practical (try drinking a pint through a mask, or, eating a meal).

Personally, I make a personal judgement when entering venues, there are places I would avoid, if they are (in my uneducated opinion) rather crowded. So, I suppose, my "freedom" is being restricted, in that I avoid certain venues, but, IMHO, that is infinitely better than being excluded from ALL venues, because they are closed.

Yeah, I'm not going to the pub.

 

[icowden]

Freedom of choice, if someone wants to be cautious a wear a mask that's their business.

But it shouldn't be. It should be your business to protect other people from you. Masks don't work well to protect the wearer. They work well to protect other people.

This is the best analogy:-

You are naked. Another bloke is naked. He is standing 6 feet away from you pissing. Your legs are now soaked in piss.
You are wearing trousers, Another bloke is naked. He is standing 6 feet away from you pissing. Your legs and trousers are now soaked in piss.
You are wearing trousers, Another bloke is wearing trousers. He is standing 6 feet away from you pissing. He has wet trousers. You don't.

So we need everyone to be wearing a mask, so that no-one is inhaling their infective droplets, for the most efficient protection. Other things like ventilation help, but masks don't cause a problem for anyone, have no side effects and do help.

 

[icowden]

But, there are some indoor spaces where mask wearing was never practical (try drinking a pint through a mask, or, eating a meal).

Agreed. These venues should be accessible to people who have been triple vaccinated. A simple scan of the Covid* passport - everyone inside is now at reduced risk.

*if unable to have the Covid vaccination, then there should be a suitable alternative identification confirming a medical exemption. Although if you are medically exempt you are probably shielding and avoiding these sorts of places. No other exemptions are valid - I don't care which version of a powerful sky being you believe in until you can offer me peer reviewed evidence of their existence.

 

[matticus]

You are naked. Another bloke is naked. He is standing 6 feet away from you pissing. Your legs are now soaked in piss.
You are wearing trousers, Another bloke is naked. He is standing 6 feet away from you pissing. Your legs and trousers are now soaked in piss.
You are wearing trousers, Another bloke is wearing trousers. He is standing 6 feet away from you pissing. He has wet trousers. You don't.

I can see why you and Jim don't go the pub any more!

; -)

 

[BoldonLad]

Agreed. These venues should be accessible to people who have been triple vaccinated. A simple scan of the Covid* passport - everyone inside is now at reduced risk.

*if unable to have the Covid vaccination, then there should be a suitable alternative identification confirming a medical exemption. Although if you are medically exempt you are probably shielding and avoiding these sorts of places. No other exemptions are valid - I don't care which version of a powerful sky being you believe in until you can offer me peer reviewed evidence of their existence.

How secure are Covid Passports then? Not very IMHO.

Does a medical exemption from vaccination or mask wearing prevent you from infecting other people then?

To be clear, I am not. an anti-vaxxer, I have had the two jabs and the booster, may well be getting yet another booster shortly, according to the prevailing rules.

I am a total non-believer in any deity/sky being/etc.

 

[stowie]

I've heard, I couldn't give a t*ss who does what until accusations about what I do start being fired around.

Test all you like, wear a mask 24/7 but don't lecture me on what I should be doing and go around calling people snowflakes and Gammons because they don't do what you do.

Pretty simple concept really don't you think?

It's as if the concept of externalities doesn't exist....

 

[BoldonLad]

Mask wearing and testing gives more freedom to a greater number of people.

Could you elaborate on that?

It may give more freedom to a different subset of people, but, not necessarily a greater number IMHO of course.

 

[Johnno260]

But it shouldn't be. It should be your business to protect other people from you. Masks don't work well to protect the wearer. They work well to protect other people.

This is the best analogy:-

You are naked. Another bloke is naked. He is standing 6 feet away from you pissing. Your legs are now soaked in piss.
You are wearing trousers, Another bloke is naked. He is standing 6 feet away from you pissing. Your legs and trousers are now soaked in piss.
You are wearing trousers, Another bloke is wearing trousers. He is standing 6 feet away from you pissing. He has wet trousers. You don't.

So we need everyone to be wearing a mask, so that no-one is inhaling their infective droplets, for the most efficient protection. Other things like ventilation help, but masks don't cause a problem for anyone, have no side effects and do help.

I know they protect people from the wearer not visa versa and to be honest I chose to wear one.

Point I was trying to make is I have been ripped into for wearing one, where as I have never confronted someone for not as it just provokes a confrontation.

The science is there to prove they work, but for "reasons" people feel as if covering their face is some kind of oppression.

 

[qigong chimp]

You are naked. Another bloke is naked. He is standing 6 feet away from you pissing. Your legs are now soaked in piss.
You are wearing trousers, Another bloke is naked. He is standing 6 feet away from you pissing. Your legs and trousers are now soaked in piss.
You are wearing trousers, Another bloke is wearing trousers. He is standing 6 feet away from you pissing. He has wet trousers. You don't.

All these wet legs and not a chaise-longue in sight?

 

[winjim]

Could you elaborate on that?

It may give more freedom to a different subset of people, but, not necessarily a greater number IMHO of course.

I've just spent a not insignificant number of posts doing that. Or I thought I had.

A maskless space excludes the vulnerable.

A masked space excludes nobody.

 

[BoldonLad]

I've just spent a not insignificant number of posts doing that. Or I thought I had.

A maskless space excludes the vulnerable.

A masked space excludes nobody.

Either space only "excludes" people, if they choose to be excluded, ie, people are not physically excluded from either space, some people may choose not to enter certain spaces (like you choose not to go to the pub), but, that is not actually being excluded, just like I am not excluded from entering certain venues which, in my view, are beyond the level of risk (ie degree of crowding) I am willing to take.

 

[qigong chimp]

I know they protect people from the wearer not visa versa and to be honest I chose to wear one.

Not necessarily. Close fitting FFP3 grade face masks protect the wearer also. There's a science to all this: the common, blue/white 'surgical' paper masks - and screens - protect against heavier droplet or person-to-person transmission. The heavier droplets fall out of the air fairly rapidly within a range - other than when propelled by a sneeze - of less than a couple of meters: hence the social distancing standard. They can fall on surfaces where touch might carry them to nose or mouth or eyes; hence the hand and surface sanitising protocols.

Micro-droplet transmission via aerosolised virus that gets carried on the breath and can accumulate and linger in enclosed spaces like cigarette smoke used to, is a different mode of transmission and needs good ventilation and or clinical grade face coverings to counter.

Oxford Primary Care, and the HSE (among others) have good stuff on their websites and animations platformed on you tube that explain this.

 

[winjim]

Either space only "excludes" people, if they choose to be excluded, ie, people are not physically excluded from either space, some people may choose not to enter certain spaces (like you choose not to go to the pub), but, that is not actually being excluded, just like I am not excluded from entering certain venues which, in my view, are beyond the level of risk (ie degree of crowding) I am willing to take.

Never mind.

 

[Deleted member 28]

But it shouldn't be. It should be your business to protect other people from you. Masks don't work well to protect the wearer. They work well to protect other people.

This is the best analogy:-

You are naked. Another bloke is naked. He is standing 6 feet away from you pissing. Your legs are now soaked in piss.
You are wearing trousers, Another bloke is naked. He is standing 6 feet away from you pissing. Your legs and trousers are now soaked in piss.
You are wearing trousers, Another bloke is wearing trousers. He is standing 6 feet away from you pissing. He has wet trousers. You don't.

So we need everyone to be wearing a mask, so that no-one is inhaling their infective droplets, for the most efficient protection. Other things like ventilation help, but masks don't cause a problem for anyone, have no side effects and do help.

That pissing thing doesn't hold water anymore pal, have you not heard of vaccination?

Argue the t*s all you like but the wearing of masks has been declining for a while if you hadn't noticed so you'd better live with it or stop in.

Do you spout this sh*t to people you speak to in the street or anywhere else you feel people should be wearing a mask?

 

[Rusty Nails]

They ought to rename this thread the "I'm alright Jack" thread.