Concentration camps and global warming

[icowden]

Population growth is not a uniform problem across the globe. International cooperation would be required, so, it is unlikely to happen (IMHO), this may be unfortunate, but, sometimes, life sucks.

Indeed. Apparently the population of the USA is decreasing - something else that Musk is concerned about. Not sure if it's due to birth rates or homicide rates mind...

 

[albion]

Hard work considering misinformation reigns supreme. It hits with vengeance from the likes of Putin, Johnson and Trump.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Read more carefully. I was talking about his plan - which is available on the Tesla blog, not why he came up with driverless cars.
https://www.tesla.com/blog/master-plan-part-deux

Then read master plan part three.

oh i didn't read that, i was going with what Musk himself said during the podcast with Joe Rogan. Where he explained that he came up with autopilot after a collegue died. He did talk about fully autonomous later on, but he i not create Tesla to build a fleet of autonomous cars like you stated.
it surely is something they want once fully autonomous is a thing but that is something else then founding Tesla for that reason.

 

[icowden]

it surely is something they want once fully autonomous is a thing but that is something else then founding Tesla for that reason.

Yes. It's important to read what I posted rather than what you *think* I posted - otherwise we go round in circles.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

It looked pretty factual to me:
Master Plan 1 - Completed around 2016 (give or take)

• Create low volume car (expensive) - Roadster
• Create medium volume car (expensive) Tesla S / X
• Create affordable high volume car - Tesla 3 (note - it's affordable in the US compared to here)
• Provide solar power - Tesla power wall and solar panels

Master Plan 2:

• Create solar roof (now available in some countries)
• Expand to cover other forms of transport (Cybertruck, Tesla Semi)
• Full Self Drive (self driving 10x safer than manual)
• Enable your car to make money for you when you aren't using it.

So he's half way through master plan 2 and working on Master Plan 3 - scaling to shift the energy and transport infrastructure of the planet.

By driving the uptake of EVs, Musk has caused massive investment and research into battery technology. Batteries are going to get better and easier to make, use less rare metals etc. This is still the start of the EV phase. The Model A Ford was built in 1903 - we are now 120 years later. Fuel technology has changed and improved, engines also - but we are now killing the planet as we have about 1.4 billion ICE vehicles in the world pumping out greenhouse gasses but only around 10 million EVs.

We need to reduce the numbers and reduce the gasses. Musk may be an oddball but he has delivered on his plan so far, as well as developing SpaceX with (again) a focus on re-using, not just building new every time.

Sounds all nice, but you have no use for solar walls, roofs etc. if you can't store the electricity. Musk has an unhealthy aversion for fuel cell / liquid hydrogen which could be both a good alternative for batteries powering cars(getting the weight down) and a good solution for storage.(Yes storage takes energy and using stored liquid hydrogen to generate eletricity again takes some energy but in both cost and space it's superior to the alternative which is placing large batteries.)

My thoughts turned to why Tesla motors failed so fast. With trains, it is inclines that fast kill an engine.
Traditional cars use gears to efficiently reduce the strain do is it that gearless electric engines have an inherent deficiency?

Basically because nobody cared about eclectic motors before Musk, apart from wheelchairs and some special electric vehicles, so yes the incline could be the issue, maybe the traction control could be so many things. The thing is Musk excelled in the ''the user is our beta tester'' mentality and that's the price Tesla drivers are paying rignt now in terms of the engines going so fast.
Lets also not forget that eletric cars like Tesla have a very have battery pack that is very large and heavy increasing the strain on the drivetrain which are eletric motors in an electric car. Would be interesting to see if the fuel cell eletric cars have the same amount of issues with their eletric motors but i could'nt find the numbers on that.

The article states that 90% of cheese and butter produced in Ireland is exported which suggest they have a very big surplus of milk, and hence dairy cattle way above their needs. Ireland also exports a lot of beef too, again producing a surplus.

But, however you cut-it, we need to get used to a world with very, very reduced supplies and consumption of beef and dairy...and it needs to happen now, and needs to happen quickly - See 'Running-ùp that hill' thread....

The same in the Netherlands however after much protest some researchers went into the field, spoke tov real humans and stepped away from computer calculations and surprise, surprise the results greatly changed that calculated simulation based BS which resulted in TNO (independent research thingy) advising against earlier government plans based on your numberic cow fart thing you posted earlier. Just like i explained earlier and cow fart might in numbers have a certain output, how much is really damaging really depends on a lot of factors. And just counting the numbers of what cow farts are supposed to put out simply doesn't work, it's almost as stupid as destroying private property and call yourself an activist with slogans like ''just stop oil'' it should read ''just let others pay for my stupid actions''

Answers? Probably not, in detail, but:

Coercion rarely works in the long term, so, education, and, changing attitudes is the way forward.
Population growth is not a uniform problem across the globe. International cooperation would be required, so, it is unlikely to happen (IMHO), this may be unfortunate, but, sometimes, life sucks.

I would like the climate problems to be solved peaceably and sensibly, but, human history suggests to me that is not will happen, war, disease, famine, are more likely outcomes. I am not happy about that, but, that is my expectation.

Nature is very patient, but in those over populated area's we can expect see an natural disasters wiping out large portions of the population. There are some people who believe we can control that.. I think they are wrong.

Yes. It's important to read what I posted rather than what you *think* I posted - otherwise we go round in circles.

Sure but still, nowhere in the article you posted it claims Tesla is founded to make an autonomous fleet, exactly what you earlier claimed.

 

[albion]

No mention of any hydrogen gigafactories for the UK. Lets face it, whilst Johnson has already farked off, the newbie looks made of the same cloth.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...-technology-behind-the-green-hydrogen-economy

Demand will no doubt outstrip supply from next year.

 

[icowden]

Sounds all nice, but you have no use for solar walls, roofs etc. if you can't store the electricity.

I'm not sure that is true. If you have excess energy, it gets fed back into the Grid where it can be used instead of say, burning gas. If every house had a solar roof, then sure there would be excess energy with no storage, but until supply starts outstripping demand, that isn't a huge problem.

Musk has an unhealthy aversion for fuel cell / liquid hydrogen which could be both a good alternative for batteries powering cars(getting the weight down) and a good solution for storage.(Yes storage takes energy and using stored liquid hydrogen to generate eletricity again takes some energy but in both cost and space it's superior to the alternative which is placing large batteries.)

I think the world does. 99% of hydrogen is made from fossil fuels and automakers aren't interested. We had betamax vs VHS - VHS won. Now we have ELectric vs Fuel Cell - Electric has won.

Basically because nobody cared about eclectic motors before Musk, apart from wheelchairs and some special electric vehicles, so yes the incline could be the issue, maybe the traction control could be so many things. The thing is Musk excelled in the ''the user is our beta tester'' mentality and that's the price Tesla drivers are paying rignt now in terms of the engines going so fast.

Again - can you supply some reference data for this? Actually Shell, BP etc all cared about electric motors. They cared enough to ensure that there was plenty of propaganda in favour of oil.

Lets also not forget that eletric cars like Tesla have a very have battery pack that is very large and heavy increasing the strain on the drivetrain which are eletric motors in an electric car.

I'd hope that the motors were designed to work with the weight of the car. Anything else would be silly.

Would be interesting to see if the fuel cell eletric cars have the same amount of issues with their eletric motors but i could'nt find the numbers on that.

Still waiting for any numbers on these purported engine failures of yours.

Sure but still, nowhere in the article you posted it claims Tesla is founded to make an autonomous fleet, exactly what you earlier claimed.

Does this help?

https://www.fleetforward.com/10169134/tesla-plans-to-mass-produce-robotaxis-by-2024

View: https://medium.com/@strangecosmos/the-five-pillars-of-teslas-large-scale-fleet-learning-approach-to-autonomous-driving-9f6a67aa2d0b


or this from the master plan which you somehow missed:

When true self-driving is approved by regulators, it will mean that you will be able to summon your Tesla from pretty much anywhere. Once it picks you up, you will be able to sleep, read or do anything else enroute to your destination.

You will also be able to add your car to the Tesla shared fleet just by tapping a button on the Tesla phone app and have it generate income for you while you're at work or on vacation, significantly offsetting and at times potentially exceeding the monthly loan or lease cost. This dramatically lowers the true cost of ownership to the point where almost anyone could own a Tesla. Since most cars are only in use by their owner for 5% to 10% of the day, the fundamental economic utility of a true self-driving car is likely to be several times that of a car which is not.

Ok, maybe I used words carelessly. It wasn't created to make the autonomous fleet, but that is in Musk's master plan. As the man himself says:-

“Tesla cannot die. Tesla is incredibly important for the future of sustainable transport and energy generation. The fundamental purpose, the fundamental good that Tesla provides, is accelerating the advent of sustainable transport and energy production.”

Personally I prefer a super rich guy like Musk trying to change the planet for the better over Zuckerberg and Bezos.

 

[albion]

Fool.

 

[BoldonLad]

I'm not sure that is true. If you have excess energy, it gets fed back into the Grid where it can be used instead of say, burning gas. If every house had a solar roof, then sure there would be excess energy with no storage, but until supply starts outstripping demand, that isn't a huge problem.


I think the world does. 99% of hydrogen is made from fossil fuels and automakers aren't interested. We had betamax vs VHS - VHS won. Now we have ELectric vs Fuel Cell - Electric has won.


Again - can you supply some reference data for this? Actually Shell, BP etc all cared about electric motors. They cared enough to ensure that there was plenty of propaganda in favour of oil.



I'd hope that the motors were designed to work with the weight of the car. Anything else would be silly.


Still waiting for any numbers on these purported engine failures of yours.



Does this help?

https://www.fleetforward.com/10169134/tesla-plans-to-mass-produce-robotaxis-by-2024

View: https://medium.com/@strangecosmos/the-five-pillars-of-teslas-large-scale-fleet-learning-approach-to-autonomous-driving-9f6a67aa2d0b


or this from the master plan which you somehow missed:


Ok, maybe I used words carelessly. It wasn't created to make the autonomous fleet, but that is in Musk's master plan. As the man himself says:-


Personally I prefer a super rich guy like Musk trying to change the planet for the better over Zuckerberg and Bezos.

It is not supply and demand as two total amounts. Total supply may exceed total demand, overall, but, still be out of balance at any point in time.

I barely understand Electricity, but, even I know that Generators are kept on standby to top up for peaks in demand.

Do you want only to be able to use your electric kettle on windy or sunny days?

 

[icowden]

Do you want only to be able to use your electric kettle on windy or sunny days?

Does it matter if there isn't enough Solar or wind to supply the UK at any point in time, meaning that we need to use nukes and gas burners to supply the shortfall?

 

[BoldonLad]

Does it matter if there isn't enough Solar or wind to supply the UK at any point in time, meaning that we need to use nukes and gas burners to supply the shortfall?

Not at all..... unless we are trying to eliminate gas (either on the basis of cost, or, because it is a fossil fuel), and, our Nukes are actually up and working.

 

[matticus]

Not at all..... unless we are trying to eliminate gas (either on the basis of cost, or, because it is a fossil fuel), and, our Nukes are actually up and working.

We don't need to eliminate it.

 

[icowden]

Not at all..... unless we are trying to eliminate gas (either on the basis of cost, or, because it is a fossil fuel), and, our Nukes are actually up and working.

Well yes, but as it stands the issue of electrical storage doesn't raise it's head until we get a *lot* more Solar, Wind and Tidal built. Even then, Nukes provide about 20% of power and they won't be going away soon. We could do with another 8 though!

 

[albion]

Hydrogen = Electrical storage
Efficiency = 66%

 

[BoldonLad]

Well yes, but as it stands the issue of electrical storage doesn't raise it's head until we get a *lot* more Solar, Wind and Tidal built. Even then, Nukes provide about 20% of power and they won't be going away soon. We could do with another 8 though!

AFAIK there is/has been a form of electrical storage located in Scotland for many years. It works by pumping water to a higher storage lake, using 'excess' electricity, and, then, releasing that water via a turbine to generate electricity, at times of higher demand. I am no expert, and have no idea how efficient this process is, or, indeed, if it still operates.

As a total ignoramus on the subject of electricity:

- tidal generation is presumably at least predictable, since the tides are predictable, although, we cannot adjust their flow to match the timing of (say) the latest blockbuster soap's plot highlights

- Wind and Solar are not only beyond our control in that we cannot adjust the amount of sunshine, or, the strength of the wind, so, the power is generated when 'nature' decides, not when it suits our domestic needs.

Bearing in mind my admission of ignorance, I do not understand how some form of storage or at least balancing is not required on a minute by minute basis even now, isn't that what the National Grid exists for?

At current rates of progress, I don't think we are going to have even one new Nuke in my lifetime.