Climate Crisis: Are we doing enough?

MrGrumpy

Regular
I’m sure they do but I’ll pass :hello: and at a guess that you will be long time before you even break even that’s if you ever do :laugh:.


Edit just googled cost for Tesla solar glass roof and wtf :blush: . $$$$$$
 
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mudsticks

Legendary Member
Live in Holland. Panels are subsidised and you can reclaim the VAT (21%).

And here is the yawning gap between places like the Netherlands and the UK..

A few years back in the UK there were grants and feed in tariffs available that made it financially sensible to invest or even viable to borrow money to put up solar panels.

Many small installers set up businesses on the back of this .

Then the powers that be, with very little warning changed things back around so as it was no longer viable, these small start ups went out of business.

With interest rates as low as they are atm then its probs still worth investing 'spare' cash in PV if you are a property owner - even if you move its likely to add to the value of the house.

But its all very well property owners doing this piecemeal - to build back greener - investment needs to be done now - to create jobs - combat fuel poverty- and to start combatting climate change.

Of course at the consumption end we all need to consume and use less - conserve energy and reduce our impact on the commons.

But doing all that - of course that runs contrary to the mindset that bases the value of an economy or even a society on endless capitalistic growth via GDP rather than on prioritising human, and planetary well being.

ATM having no 'solid' house to put panels on - and having delivery infrastructure close by, we just buy 'green' electricity from this lot.
https://www.goodenergy.co.uk/ have done for over twenty years now.

Once we eventually get around to building* a house I'm imagining the south facing roof will be crammed with panels - some to preheat water and others for electrons.

* for a new build i'd imagining VAT is recoverable on PV - not sure about retrofitting to an existing structure - .
 

mudsticks

Legendary Member
Not Tesla roof panels though ! :laugh: Yes I think I need to have a serious think. However we are out all day so might see not much benefit .
A friend has just invested in one of those tesla storage batteries for his array.

I nearly fell over backwards when i found out how much they cost - but i guess he sees it as a very long term investment .
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
Slightly off topic, but, why aren't all of those customers who signed up for "Green Energy" getting their Electric at pre-increase prices? I know Putin may be powerful, but, he doesn't control the Sun, Wind etc, does he?
 
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mudsticks

Legendary Member
Slightly off topic, but, why aren't all of those customers who signed up for "Green Energy" getting their Electric at pre-increase prices? I know Putin may be powerful, but, he doesn't control the Sun, Wind etc, does he?

Wholesale markets largely fix the price paid.

pre increase we were paying a premium for for a genuinely* green supply, which of course doesn't seem fair but there's clearly a price to be paid for all this blameless virtue / being out front - leading the way - supporting those comps doing 'the right thing' ..

* you could easily tell those of us who are buying into the 'real deal' - properly green electrons have a distinct whiff of cumin - and when things aren't plugged into the sockets you can detect that odour seeping out, into our kitchens .. :okay:
 

dutchguylivingintheuk

Active Member
Not exactly, but it seems achievable from some rough calculations:

UK 2021 installed PV capacity 13.5GW, actual 2020 generation 13TWh.

UK average car travels 6000 miles/year, 2017 EV average 4 miles/kWh, 32.7m cars but 2.7m are basically stored (SORNed), so 30m remain, which is 180'000m miles, which is 45'000m kWh = 45TWh

Currently only 2% of UK cars are EVs, so we only need to multiply PV capacity by 4 in the time it takes for EVs to multiply by 50!
Rough calculations.. based on the maximum output? Because that's where most if these calculations go wrong, in a moderate climate you never get the maximum output, in the warmest place in the world they cancelled their solar park too, so apparently it isn't that simple. Maybe that's why in germany they have carefull call to switch to nuclear at least in port because that the only way to meet the targets.

First, and hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but photo-voltaic panels need light (photo) not heat. This isn't about solar heating, although it's often possible to do that in the UK. I'm pretty sure the UK has light so PV works.
Yes and no, yes technically it's light and even that is simplified, because putting an high beam lamp on it won't work. So it specifically sunlight and all the rays and whatnot that comes with it but not necessarily heat that's more of a danger than it is a plus.(there have been numerous fires due to pv's overheating) However a tropical climate also has the strongest sunlight, so a PV in the UK has a lower output then the same PV somewhere warm. But it will most likely also fail sooner in the warmer climate.
Second, deserts aren't actually that great for PV because sand farks everything up.

But more importantly, the question isn't whether PV are the best green electricity option for the UK (because no-one is saying only to build PV and forget all others), but whether it's a useful one: and yes, it is.
Sure, it was also not about one PV but it was about a whole farm opposed to a whole PV farm in the uk, the output would outweigh the downsides, alltough it's not free energy the maintenance would be higher, than an comparable setup on uk soil. One point we haven't really touched on is a other point you can better control in the desert than in a populated area and that is the fire risk. The numbers on how big of this risk is vary greatly the usual excuses off ''it's all because of cheap hardware'' also pass the sport quite a few times but it is an important issue. As electrical fires are very hard to put out
I think you have cancelled a key question about your own post: why would anyone want the UK not to have more PV?
Well there are quite a lot from the unreasonable ''i don't like change'' ''i just bought a new gas boiler 20 years ago etc. to the more reasonable like ''what about the(additional/increased) fire risks? ''i just spend £XX.xxx renovating my home do i have to start again?'' ''I bought a diesel car because the government said it was cleaner now i can't drive it anymore in London Birmingham an other place because it's now called a older polluting vehicle, why should i trust the government again?
 

mjr

Active Member
Rough calculations.. based on the maximum output?
No, based on last year's actual output. I feel that was very clear, so I don't see the point of wasting my time writing further rebuttals that you will not read and I suspect you are trying to invoke Brandolini's Law.

So, in short: your posts are wrong in several ways.
 

dutchguylivingintheuk

Active Member
No, based on last year's actual output. I feel that was very clear, so I don't see the point of wasting my time writing further rebuttals that you will not read and I suspect you are trying to invoke Brandolini's Law.

So, in short: your posts are wrong in several ways.
Ok, actual output, what does installed capacity means according to you? Because that's all what your number say, read your own piece back, that is what it says. (and i searched the original source as well, it is indeed capacity, not actual output)
You can start wandering about whoever's law you don't even have your own facts right, so how do you mean wasting your time writing futher rebutals? you failed the first one
 
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