Climate Crisis: Are we doing enough?

Banderill

New Member
We've been warned about the dangers by scientists and environmental campaign groups for decades.

We've gone from Global Warming to Climate Change to Climate Crisis!

There's so much to be done. Do you think we'll manage it?
 

newfhouse

Socialist tag team member
Do you think we'll manage it?
It depends on what “it” is.

I expect that the affluent countries will carry on consuming and finding ways to cope by using resources even faster, painting ourselves into a corner. The people that worry about so-called economic migration now are in for a shock as whole populations are forced to move just to survive. There will be much blood shed.

I’m old enough to have been a teenage supporter of the Ecology Party in the late 70s. Since then awareness of climate, energy and pollution has grown but not as fast as the actual problems. And there are still many in denial, often as a result of billion dollar marketing budgets. Like many, I try to reduce my impact on the world, but would it be enough even if everyone did the same? Could I do more? (Yes).

I try to be optimistic but it’s a real struggle.
 

Milkfloat

Regular
I expect that the richer countries who have caused so much damage over the last couple of centuries will put some serious effort in to reduce the damage they cause, mainly in their countries. They will then start pointing the finger at less developed countries and tell them not to cause damage, whilst conveniently forgetting that they have subcontracted their pollution to the less developed countries and they had decades of killing the planet that allowed them to become so developed in the first place.

In the end, the human race will survive, we are smart enough to do that, but at what cost? Globally things will get significantly worse, with a large number of natural disasters (caused by humans) before we sit up and really put the effort in. The West need to eat a lot less meat and consume far les resources and stop exporting their pollution elsewhere.
 

Pale Rider

Well-Known Member
It depends on what 'we' is.

The UK is responsible for a tiny proportion of the problem, so if we all went back to living in caves tomorrow it would have very little impact.

Which is not an excuse to do nothing, but it's the major polluters which need to get their acts properly together.

As one measure, the list of top CO2 producers:

  • China.
  • The United States.
  • India.
  • The Russian Federation.
  • Japan.
 

Ian H

Regular
If people imagine that buying electric cars and recycling vast amounts of waste is all that's required, then we're in trouble. Energy companies have become experts at 'green-washing', that is fronting their businesses with the (actually insignificant) renewable energy they produce. As big businesses, they have influence with governments.

And perhaps it's time to replace the phrase 'environmentally friendly' with the more accurate 'slightly less environmentally unfriendly' in describing manufactured goods.

Historically, humans seem to be better at coping with disaster than forestalling it.
 

Milkfloat

Regular
It depends on what 'we' is.

The UK is responsible for a tiny proportion of the problem, so if we all went back to living in caves tomorrow it would have very little impact.

Which is not an excuse to do nothing, but it's the major polluters which need to get their acts properly together.

As one measure, the list of top CO2 producers:

  • China.
  • The United States.
  • India.
  • The Russian Federation.
  • Japan.
The major polluters are often producing goods for those who claim not to pollute, we have just exported the problem. I fully agree that as an individual we have almost zero impact, but as a global population we do. In my opinion it will be a long slow process over decades before we really focus on the environment, the richer countries will move first and hopefully will export the technologies produced to the less well off countries, where quite frankly the environment is the last thing on their mind.
 

FishFright

Active Member
Not even close. Sadly most discussions on this subject soon turn to country X doesn't do enough so why should we .
We all need to do quite a bit to avert the climate disaster that's already starting but most countries, companies and individuals put way more effort into finding excuses than actually doing anything about it.
Unless we change the climate will .
 

Pale Rider

Well-Known Member
The major polluters are often producing goods for those who claim not to pollute, we have just exported the problem. I fully agree that as an individual we have almost zero impact, but as a global population we do. In my opinion it will be a long slow process over decades before we really focus on the environment, the richer countries will move first and hopefully will export the technologies produced to the less well off countries, where quite frankly the environment is the last thing on their mind.

We are among the lowest polluters of the industrialised nations, so I think our biggest contribution can be from leading the way in reducing pollution.

In other words, we use what has recently been called our 'soft power' to influence others.

We still have the fifth or sixth biggest economy in the world (by GDP), yet we barely make the top 20 in terms of CO2 production.

Also heartening to see in this CO2 table from 2016, which was the most recent which popped up on google, we are leading the way in percentage CO2 reduction.

Many countries were still increasing theirs, and the major players were showing comparatively weedy reductions.

https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-by-country/
 

Milkfloat

Regular
We are among the lowest polluters of the industrialised nations, so I think our biggest contribution can be from leading the way in reducing pollution.

In other words, we use what has recently been called our 'soft power' to influence others.

We still have the fifth or sixth biggest economy in the world (by GDP), yet we barely make the top 20 in terms of CO2 production.

Also heartening to see in this CO2 table from 2016, which was the most recent which popped up on google, we are leading the way in percentage CO2 reduction.

Many countries were still increasing theirs, and the major players were showing comparatively weedy reductions.

https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-by-country/
We are seeing lower CO2 because we are exporting our manufacturing abroad, if you take that into account the CO2 we are responsible for has risen. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/04/climate/outsourcing-carbon-emissions.html
 

the snail

Member
It depends on what 'we' is.

The UK is responsible for a tiny proportion of the problem, so if we all went back to living in caves tomorrow it would have very little impact.

Which is not an excuse to do nothing, but it's the major polluters which need to get their acts properly together.

As one measure, the list of top CO2 producers:

  • China.
  • The United States.
  • India.
  • The Russian Federation.
  • Japan.
We are also responsible for historic CO2 emissions over 200 years. It's a global problem, and the whole world needs to act, including us. Suggesting that we can do what we like and leaving it up to the US and China isn't going to wash with the rest of the world. The UK will probably end up just as fubarred as anywhere in the end.
 

Rusty Nails

Oh yes he is!
We are also responsible for historic CO2 emissions over 200 years. It's a global problem, and the whole world needs to act, including us. Suggesting that we can do what we like and leaving it up to the US and China isn't going to wash with the rest of the world. The UK will probably end up just as fubarred as anywhere in the end.
We have to do as much as we can, and being a wealthy nation we should be able to do more than many others. Not because we were one of the early and biggest polluters but because it is the right thing to do now.

I have no feelings of guilt at all over our historic CO2 emissions, as that was done out of scientific ignorance at the time, and we were just one of the vanguards as an 'advanced' nation, in the same way that no one can attach any guilt to Walter Raleigh for introducing tobacco to England with its toll in cancer.
 
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