Climate Crisis: Are we doing enough?

You read it: that number was given for information and only the actual generation figure was used in the comparison.
Ok, so i checked a bit further and it turns out that in our climate, PV panels only around 10% capacity factor. So that's not very good compared to their price, the increased fire risk, which you don't feel like discussing think i get why, it's an bad deal. So better only focus on everything that's sounds nice claim a few disasters as all due to the human made climate change, who cares about facts right?

In the Netherlands they made those mistakes too, that's why for example, you can find a whole lot of Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV's for sale because after all the government funding(subsidies, tax exemptions, etc. etc. ) they where almost free. They now changed the rules a bit but down the line not much has changed, the PHEV have been replaced as most of them are leased so they only last 3 years, and down the lane there is a whole lot of stock but much smaller demand. Hurah for saving the environment right?

Same with PV panels, there is still a lot of money being paid by the government for it and because of that a lot of people have PV panels on their home. But without government funding it would actually cost money, energy suppliers are losing money on getting solar power back into the network. And no that's not going to change if more people have PV panels, that's all down to that earlier mentioned 10% at best

But not a single coal or Bio-lies power plant can be turned off because of the PV capacity. Because it's one directional thinking, we need to find better solutions because PV panels are simply not going to work in this climate, at least they won't be able to provide a substancial part of the total power requirements
 

FishFright

Active Member
Ok, so i checked a bit further and it turns out that in our climate, PV panels only around 10% capacity factor. So that's not very good compared to their price, the increased fire risk, which you don't feel like discussing think i get why, it's an bad deal. So better only focus on everything that's sounds nice claim a few disasters as all due to the human made climate change, who cares about facts right?

In the Netherlands they made those mistakes too, that's why for example, you can find a whole lot of Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV's for sale because after all the government funding(subsidies, tax exemptions, etc. etc. ) they where almost free. They now changed the rules a bit but down the line not much has changed, the PHEV have been replaced as most of them are leased so they only last 3 years, and down the lane there is a whole lot of stock but much smaller demand. Hurah for saving the environment right?

Same with PV panels, there is still a lot of money being paid by the government for it and because of that a lot of people have PV panels on their home. But without government funding it would actually cost money, energy suppliers are losing money on getting solar power back into the network. And no that's not going to change if more people have PV panels, that's all down to that earlier mentioned 10% at best

But not a single coal or Bio-lies power plant can be turned off because of the PV capacity. Because it's one directional thinking, we need to find better solutions because PV panels are simply not going to work in this climate, at least they won't be able to provide a substancial part of the total power requirements

Have you got sources for that 10% claim ?
 

FishFright

Active Member
Sure it's not an secret number, just a number those claiming PV panels are our rescue don't like to be reminded about.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_the_United_Kingdom Oh and if wikipedia is something to cry about, if you scroll down you see all links to the sources, if you fancy reading hunderds of pages to come to the same conclusion.

Nice one , I'm surprised it was so high tbh as the stated capacity is a ridiculous marketing ploy. Bear in mind that the it's 10% of the suns energy per given area that's directly converted to electricity with no further pollution.

The 30% that's commonly given for modern gas powered station does not include any of the energy used to get , process and transport the fuel.

Besides nearly 13 GW-h is pretty good but it's sad to see it's leveled out due to the way the government removed subsidies for installs but increased the subsidies for fossil fuels.
 
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Nice one , I'm surprised it was so high tbh as the stated capacity is a ridiculous marketing ploy. Bear in mind that the it's 10% of the suns energy per given area that's directly converted to electricity with no further pollution.
I have no idea what the marketing claims are, it's 10% efficiency compared the the 100% situation.(which is probably nowhere) or 4.1% or our current energy consumption.


The 30% that's commonly given for modern gas powered station does not include any of the energy used to get , process and transport the fuel.
Gas is a bit off a odd one here because where looking for alternatives to gas, a modern branded as green forest burner power plant(or Bio mass in lie-ing terms) is much worse than both of them, yet branded ''green''

Besides nearly 13 GW-h is pretty good but it's sad to see it's leveled out due to the way the government removed subsidies for installs but increased the subsidies for fossil fuels.
Unless it's your house that burns down because your neighbors PV decided to start a bonfire. A risk especially considering how hard electrical fires are to manage for the fire brigade
 

FishFright

Active Member
I have no idea what the marketing claims are, it's 10% efficiency compared the the 100% situation.(which is probably nowhere) or 4.1% or our current energy consumption.



Gas is a bit off a odd one here because where looking for alternatives to gas, a modern branded as green forest burner power plant(or Bio mass in lie-ing terms) is much worse than both of them, yet branded ''green''


Unless it's your house that burns down because your neighbors PV decided to start a bonfire. A risk especially considering how hard electrical fires are to manage for the fire brigade

It's 10% of the total light that hits the cell. .

Biomass is renewable but turning it into a gas is silly idea .

The last one ..... :wacko:
 

mjr

Regular
Ok, so i checked a bit further and it turns out that in our climate, PV panels only around 10% capacity factor. So that's not very good compared to their price, the increased fire risk, which you don't feel like discussing think i get why, it's an bad deal. So better only focus on everything that's sounds nice claim a few disasters as all due to the human made climate change, who cares about facts right?
I agree that the price isn't great at the moment, while the increased fire risk is BS and I didn't feel like discussing either because they are completely irrelevant to the question asked, which was basically whether UK PV could generate enough to supply UK EV: and yes, it looks like it could, which is a fact you don't seem to care about as you furiously Gish-gallop off towards the horizon.

In the Netherlands they made those mistakes too, that's why for example, you can find a whole lot of Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV's for sale because after all the government funding(subsidies, tax exemptions, etc. etc. ) they where almost free.
Like, what does this has to do with anything about supplying those vehicles with power? Also, PHEVs are a niche thing which should never have been promoted widely, PHEV SUVs even more niche and non-P HEVs should be banned from calling themselves hybrid vehicles.

[...] But not a single coal or Bio-lies power plant can be turned off because of the PV capacity. Because it's one directional thinking, we need to find better solutions because PV panels are simply not going to work in this climate, at least they won't be able to provide a substancial part of the total power requirements
Isn't it more because of a mixture of induced demand and lack of storage?
 
I agree that the price isn't great at the moment, while the increased fire risk is BS and I didn't feel like discussing either because they are completely irrelevant to the question asked, which was basically whether UK PV could generate enough to supply UK EV: and yes, it looks like it could, which is a fact you don't seem to care about as you furiously Gish-gallop off towards the horizon.
I think the fire-risk is relevant because it changes the question how/where/ and what extra measurements need to be in place, when installing panels. But let's agree to disagree on the wider topic off fire risk for now.
The 10% is already up a lot, but ok capacity, the current 13gigasomething is according to wikipedia for biggest part due too a gigantic solar parc/farm. currently solar only provides roughly 4% of the energy need.. in don;t think we have the space. and more importanly i think we have better alternatives
Like, what does this has to do with anything about supplying those vehicles with power? Also, PHEVs are a niche thing which should never have been promoted widely, PHEV SUVs even more niche and non-P HEVs should be banned from calling themselves hybrid vehicles.
Agreed, simalarly a verhicle like an eVito doesn't make sense either, it does 250 miles in optimal conditions
Isn't it more because of a mixture of induced demand and lack of storage?
No it's an issue with the cables transferring the power to the grid from the homes not being thick enough in ''good'' days.(causing the pv controller to switch off because of heat) and the power grid not being able to store the energy. So the focus should change so that poeple if they buy PV panels also buy a battery system so they harvest the energy themselves and it gets used when it's needed.
 

Randomnerd

New Member
I’ve just been thrown a small work bone to help a regional community woodland effort in planting more trees - for carbon capture, flood risk alleviation, and for all the other benefits of more woodland, in the right place.

Of course it isn’t that easy, once you go past the headlines. The aims are great but govt funds are limited. And we already have millions of acres of woodland poorly managed. Is adding to it the right way to go?

But, UK is one of the least wooded countries in Europe. Space does need to be given over to trees, for good.

(I’m a bigger fan of allowing nature to do its own thing, by simply locking up land and letting it get on with it over time. A great long fence seems a pretty easy way to do things. But the funders want to be seen to be doing things' so acres and acres of tree tubes will spring up)

Personally, if we all tend our own gardens - take part in being as sustainable as we can in our life choices - then we can change the current course of the climate to some degree. I know too little of the science to provide statistics. All this relies on everyone being a part - globally, appears that we are not all on board. Until then…
 

farfromtheland

Regular AND Goofy
Personally, if we all tend our own gardens - take part in being as sustainable as we can in our life choices - then we can change the current course of the climate to some degree. I know too little of the science to provide statistics. All this relies on everyone being a part - globally, appears that we are not all on board. Until then…
We need to stop buying foodstuffs made with conflict palm oil!
Boycott it! Talk about it. Rainforest ecosystems are being trashed.

There is a hell of a lot of this since 'hygrogenated fat' was criticised, and too many mass produced vegan convenience products use it.
 

icowden

Regular
We need to stop buying foodstuffs made with conflict palm oil!
Boycott it! Talk about it. Rainforest ecosystems are being trashed.
Agree on this. We went to Malaysia on honeymoon in 2004 and on safari you could travel for hours just looking at rainforest that had been razed to plant palm trees. It's so much worse now when you look on google maps
 

mudsticks

Über Member
We need to stop buying foodstuffs made with conflict palm oil!
Boycott it! Talk about it. Rainforest ecosystems are being trashed.

There is a hell of a lot of this since 'hygrogenated fat' was criticised, and too many mass produced vegan convenience products use it.
And buy Brazil nuts instead..

They're only wild harvested from mature trees - makes some income for forest dwellers

Regarding our own home grown agriculture it's very much the how not the cow..

Fair enough if you don't want to consume animal products from a personal ethics pov .
But veganism is not going to 'save the planet'

Eating conciously can be a part of our 'doing our bit'

https://ethicalbutcher.co.uk/blogs/journal/what-is-regenuary-2022

Although of course its the 'at scale' heavy on fossil fuels stuff that really needs to change - and change fast
I’ve just been thrown a small work bone to help a regional community woodland effort in planting more trees - for carbon capture, flood risk alleviation, and for all the other benefits of more woodland, in the right place.

Of course it isn’t that easy, once you go past the headlines. The aims are great but govt funds are limited. And we already have millions of acres of woodland poorly managed. Is adding to it the right way to go?

But, UK is one of the least wooded countries in Europe. Space does need to be given over to trees, for good.

(I’m a bigger fan of allowing nature to do its own thing, by simply locking up land and letting it get on with it over time. A great long fence seems a pretty easy way to do things. But the funders want to be seen to be doing things' so acres and acres of tree tubes will spring up)

Personally, if we all tend our own gardens - take part in being as sustainable as we can in our life choices - then we can change the current course of the climate to some degree. I know too little of the science to provide statistics. All this relies on everyone being a part - globally, appears that we are not all on board. Until then…

Agree about the many acres of poorly managed woodland in this country.
It's all very well planting trees - even if done in the right place - they are as you know often questionably placed - but tree aftercare is often none existant..

And squirrels..Don't get me started on squirrels..
We should definitely be eating them..

Theres a real shortage of good tree guards available atm -according to my tree planting associates - probs down to covid/ brexit materials shortages , combined with an upswing in tree planting.

You'll be unsurprised to hear that I'm not a fan of persuing 'rewilding' on vast acreages*, much of which could be used productively for food and fuel and fibre - alongside tree planting and enhanced biodiversity .

* That will just be more money into the pockets of the already well land-endowed .. And doesn't address food security / food and land justice in any way shape or form

Anyhoo up - back to practicing what i preach - :angel:

You seem to be doing fine so far :okay:
 
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