Israel / Palestine

[BoldonLad]

I CBA to see if anyone else has pointed this out, but the origin of a word has no bearing on anything.

Try calling a black person a "ni***r", and then explain that it isnt a disgusting racist slur because the origin of the word is the Spanish word for black.

I dare you.

No, I double dare you.

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Does that apply to the terms "anti-semite", "anti-semitic" etc ?

 

[multitool]

Does that apply to the terms "anti-semite", "anti-semitic" etc ?

Yep. Language evolves.

If it didn't we'd all still just be grunting like AndyCXR.

 

[Milzy]

I CBA to see if anyone else has pointed this out, but the origin of a word has no bearing on anything.

Try calling a black person a "ni***r", and then explain that it isnt a disgusting racist slur because the origin of the word is the Spanish word for black.

I dare you.

No, I double dare you.

View attachment 5800

Correct, on so many American made films the Mexicans and any Latin person for that matter are called Spicks. It’s just an awful word in general. Also they call Italians WOP’s. It’s a slur but is supposed to stand for Western orientated person which then doesn’t seem so bad.

 

[AndyRM]

I've never heard of "wop" meaning that but whatever. Spic is obvious.

But, once again, so what? We all know this.

Slurs are used all the time, though generally in media it's for a reason or to make a point.

Why you're banging on about them is baffling.

 

[All uphill]

I've never heard of "wop" meaning that but whatever. Spic is obvious.

But, once again, so what? We all know this.

Slurs are used all the time, though generally in media it's for a reason or to make a point.

Why you're banging on about them is baffling.

It gets a reaction?

 

[AndyRM]

It gets a reaction?

I suppose so. And really it's just borderline trolling at this point, with the thin veil of feigned ignorance over it or something.

 

[icowden]

Correct, on so many American made films the Mexicans and any Latin person for that matter are called Spicks. It’s just an awful word in general. Also they call Italians WOP’s. It’s a slur but is supposed to stand for Western orientated person which then doesn’t seem so bad.

No it doesn't. It comes from Guappo.

The Merriam-Webster dictionary states wop's first known use was in the United States in 1908, and that it originates from the Southern Italian dialectal term guappo, roughly meaning "dandy", or "swaggerer", derived from the Spanish term guapo, meaning "good-looking", "dandy", from Latin vappa for "sour wine", also "worthless fellow".[2][3][4]

In Neapolitan and other Southern Italo-Romance varieties, guappo is pronounced roughly as wahp-po.[5][6] As word-final vowels in Southern Italian varieties are often realised as /ə/, guappo would often sound closer to wahpp to anglophones. Guappo historically refers to a type of flashy, boisterous, swaggering, dandy-like criminal in the Naples area. The word eventually became associated with members of the Camorra and has often been used in the Naples area as a friendly or humorous term of address among men.[7] The word likely transformed into the slur "wop" following the arrival of poor Italian immigrants into the United States. Southern Italian immigrant males would often refer to one another as guappo in a jocular or playful manner; as these Italian immigrants often worked as manual laborers in the United States, their native-born American employers and fellow laborers took notice of the Italians' playful term of address and eventually began deploying it as a derogatory term for all Italians and Southern Europeans, along with the term Dago.[6] The term guappo was especially used by older Italian immigrant males to refer to the younger Italian male immigrants arriving in America.[8][5]

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

It's not "mass Jew hatred" you dolt. It's anything but. Sh!t, you can even spell Israel correctly most of the time which is massively disrespectful IMO.

Regarding spelling, it's called dislexia look it up you might learn soemthing.. So you so it isn't mass jew hatred so we all have to listen to you on you farking high horse?
Let me once again put a few things on a row, as soon as the news about the attack game about, you lot here where questioning everything, whcich on the surface is good, i becomes a slightly different story when if we look at other kind of terror attacks wherther it was Isis or they few attack specificaly on muslims because they where muslims the response is totally different. Considering we have a reference for mass jew hatred namely the period before the second world war, i dont believe it's just me saying it i believe the jew hatred from the second world war never really went away. Which we also see on for use little details, the Jewish neighborhood of Antwerpen(Belgium) has quasi permanent armed police protection and no that's not just the diamandbuurt (where are the diamond traders are located they have permanent protecting by officers)
Before Isreals response but after 7 October jewish buildings synogoges etc. had to be protected by police, (to prevent jews from getting hurt just for the record)
So in my view it's an resurgence of jew hatred, i hope you can provide lots of evidence to prove otherwise, because it would be good to known i'm wrong in this case but considering your history of attacking the poster when you get it wrong i'm not holding my breathe

My point which you so gloriously missed is that October 7 wasn't the start of this conflict, but an escalation. Israel's response is so massively out of proportion and that's what people, not just on here, are criticising and rightly so.

I did not mis your point i don't agree with it, my point is that the 7th of October was yes an escalation but also a different phase Isreals iron wall was broken, so they needed to change their way of thinking, their way of handling things etc. So in terms or gravity i would say it's an new war/conflict. Otherwise you could also say there was only one Gulf war, before Saddam was brought down he was warmongering every so much years.

The Iran thing is a total false flag, but I'm not even getting into that because you'd refuse to see it or go off, whether wilfully or not, on some ridiculous tangent.

Sure, not sure which part you call a false flag, Isreal hitting commanders and generals is nothing new, Trump did it too. Calling Iran's attack a flalse flag is nothing more than copium if you look at their intended targets it was nothing but a false flag, but they have once again proven that building rockets in the 20th century based on a design that wasn't great when the Sovjets designed it, isn't the best recipe for a succesfull attack.
But calling their intentions a false flag? i'don't known what stuff you're on but it strong mate!

BTW, it's on The Times of Israel and part of the header image of the site so isn't blocked, unless you're using some weird text based browser.

I just don't look on that site very often, there goes @Moodyman 's troll theory, maybe he can promote you to pro isreal troll now...

She’s just pandering to the Israeli far right. It’s interesting that even they, do not vilify 1.5 billion of the earth’s inhabitants.

Who in term do a lot to show their love for jews right? or any other religions or beleifs for that matter. Still doesn't make it right but it comes from somewhere.

The IsraelI right tends to focus its hatred on specific groups or governments. At the very worst, they will refer to them as Arabs or Ishmaelites (some 300m people).

that's what all either left or right groups do, they look for a scapegoat, left always blames the rich, right always blames the minorities that's why succesfull goverments in general exist out of a mix of several fractions.

Israel is effectively giving Hamas exactly what they wanted. Presumably the goal of the Hamas attack on Israel was to provoke a extreme response from them, leading to a wider conflict with Israel.It's almost like the far right in Israel and Hamas are in a grotesque unholy alliance to perpetuate violence and ensure discord prevails.

No Hamas wanted an ''arab uprising'' so all Arab countries teaming up against isreal, a bit of a silly idea considering Egypt only a few years back hanged Hamas backed muslim botherhood former president. If one thing the past 10/15 years of slim extremism has brought it is a much stronger stance of ohter muslims countries against these extremist. (and no with that i'm not in any way shape or form implying those countries are a oasis of peace and there goverment are great for their people or human rights)
Yes the normalising off ties has largely been cancelled ut to be honest i think that's also a consequence of Nethanyahu being back in it's place, he is understandably not a very popular figure.

I think that was the intention, or at the very least to stop Saudi Arabia normalising relations with Israel. Reports says Jordan and Saudi provided intelligence and shot down some of the Iranian missiles so it doesn't look like a wider conflict is on the cards.

No Hamas and suchlike lost their influence in Arab goverments years ago with some exceptions, there are more intergrated in western goverment and education tough.

The links between the Israeli right and Hamas are long and well documented even to the point that Hamas were funded and supported by them in the early years. The Zionists do not want a Palestinian leadership that may compromise and be willing to negotiate a meaningful statehood. Hamas are a useful bogeyman.

Same mistake as the Americans made with Saddam, their ties has been cut for some time tough, after Hamas started attacking the hand was feeding them and is a direct result, Isreal killed every leader it could find. (a process they still do) That's why some hamas figures have been hiding in Qatar for so long.

 

[AndyRM]

Regarding spelling, it's called dislexia look it up you might learn soemthing.. So you so it isn't mass jew hatred so we all have to listen to you on you farking high horse?
Let me once again put a few things on a row, as soon as the news about the attack game about, you lot here where questioning everything, whcich on the surface is good, i becomes a slightly different story when if we look at other kind of terror attacks wherther it was Isis or they few attack specificaly on muslims because they where muslims the response is totally different. Considering we have a reference for mass jew hatred namely the period before the second world war, i dont believe it's just me saying it i believe the jew hatred from the second world war never really went away. Which we also see on for use little details, the Jewish neighborhood of Antwerpen(Belgium) has quasi permanent armed police protection and no that's not just the diamandbuurt (where are the diamond traders are located they have permanent protecting by officers)
Before Isreals response but after 7 October jewish buildings synogoges etc. had to be protected by police, (to prevent jews from getting hurt just for the record)
So in my view it's an resurgence of jew hatred, i hope you can provide lots of evidence to prove otherwise, because it would be good to known i'm wrong in this case but considering your history of attacking the poster when you get it wrong i'm not holding my breathe





I did not mis your point i don't agree with it, my point is that the 7th of October was yes an escalation but also a different phase Isreals iron wall was broken, so they needed to change their way of thinking, their way of handling things etc. So in terms or gravity i would say it's an new war/conflict. Otherwise you could also say there was only one Gulf war, before Saddam was brought down he was warmongering every so much years.




Sure, not sure which part you call a false flag, Isreal hitting commanders and generals is nothing new, Trump did it too. Calling Iran's attack a flalse flag is nothing more than copium if you look at their intended targets it was nothing but a false flag, but they have once again proven that building rockets in the 20th century based on a design that wasn't great when the Sovjets designed it, isn't the best recipe for a succesfull attack.
But calling their intentions a false flag? i'don't known what stuff you're on but it strong mate!




I just don't look on that site very often, there goes @Moodyman 's troll theory, maybe he can promote you to pro isreal troll now...


Who in term do a lot to show their love for jews right? or any other religions or beleifs for that matter. Still doesn't make it right but it comes from somewhere.

that's what all either left or right groups do, they look for a scapegoat, left always blames the rich, right always blames the minorities that's why succesfull goverments in general exist out of a mix of several fractions.


No Hamas wanted an ''arab uprising'' so all Arab countries teaming up against isreal, a bit of a silly idea considering Egypt only a few years back hanged Hamas backed muslim botherhood former president. If one thing the past 10/15 years of slim extremism has brought it is a much stronger stance of ohter muslims countries against these extremist. (and no with that i'm not in any way shape or form implying those countries are a oasis of peace and there goverment are great for their people or human rights)
Yes the normalising off ties has largely been cancelled ut to be honest i think that's also a consequence of Nethanyahu being back in it's place, he is understandably not a very popular figure.


No Hamas and suchlike lost their influence in Arab goverments years ago with some exceptions, there are more intergrated in western goverment and education tough.


Same mistake as the Americans made with Saddam, their ties has been cut for some time tough, after Hamas started attacking the hand was feeding them and is a direct result, Isreal killed every leader it could find. (a process they still do) That's why some hamas figures have been hiding in Qatar for so long.

The irony of you asking for evidence after this nonsense ramble.

It's pointless trying to engage with you on any sort of meaningful level, I've tried and failed in the past. As have others.

 

[BoldonLad]

Yep. Language evolves.

If it didn't we'd all still just be grunting like AndyCXR.

Was probably originally German. There is some suggestion that the term was coined in the late 19th century to discriminate between a particular form of anti-jewish sentiment and the general prejudice towards Jews that had existed before.

'Semitic' refers to a group of languages that share common features.

Indeed.

And it took about 45 years to go from 'scientific racism' to a scientific solution.

Is “anti-Semitic” an acceptable term on not then, in this “evolving” language?

 

[Moodyman]

Is “anti-Semitic” an acceptable term on not then, in this “evolving” language?

No. Anti-Semitism could refer to several related (*) groups. Yet, we often use it for a singular group whose numbers are quite small. Racism against the Arabs, who are the largest Semitic group by some margin, would not be anti-Semitic.

* the Middle East mess could be summed up as a family dispute. For Arabs and Jews are effectively cousins, descendants of Ishmael and Isaac - sons of Moses.

 

[BoldonLad]

No. Anti-Semitism could refer to several related (*) groups. Yet, we often use it for a singular group whose numbers are quite small. Racism against the Arabs, who are the largest Semitic group by some margin, would not be anti-Semitic.

* the Middle East mess could be summed up as a family dispute. For Arabs and Jews are effectively cousins, descendants of Ishmael and Isaac - sons of Moses.

You must be a politician

 

[multitool]

Taking a step back, it's not very heartening to view where the potential conflict with Iran might lead in the light of 6 months of conflict in Gaza.

After 7/10 Israel should have had three objectives: the disarm Hamas, release the hostages, and strengthen its relationship with allied nations. It has largely failed in the first two, and reversed the third. Instead, it has squandered the sympathy it enjoyed in the early weeks of the conflict turning itself into a pariah state, earning the opprobrium of allied western nations and making it very hard for Arab states who wish to cooperate. In Gaza itself, it has not only killed an unfeasible number of people and destroyed the fabric of civilian life it has also created a humanitarian disaster about which the people of Israel are in denial, choosing instead to give in to the desire for revenge.

Nethanyahu cannot have handled this any worse. It has been enabled by decades of dehumanising the Palestinians. Where do they go from here?

 

[AndyRM]

It's impossible to know, really. They've backed themselves into such a tight corner it's unreal. There have been some mightily misjudged political and military manoeuvres over the years, and this is up there with the worst of them.

I think what makes it really bad is the level of disinformation and denial, especially in an age where conspiracy theories are latched onto with abandon. I thought it was pretty shocking in the Ukraine/Russia conflict but this is next level.

 

[multitool]

I think the key point is that up until now Iran has not directly attacked Israel.

Israel, of course, has a long history of attacks on Iran.