Enhanced Britishness

[Deleted member 49]

I blame the EU ...

I think you meant to say Corbyn ?

 

[AndyRM]

Of course there is physical violence in all rapes.

It is violence done to the body.
Just because there is not always broken flesh or bones or bruising doesn't mean it is not physically violent to the body.


It is physically violent to the integrity of the body of the victim.

It's is also psychological violent to the mind of the victim.

The fear and trauma resulting can last a lifetime if untreated.

It is always violent.
Even if no weapon or force are used.

But once the accusation of 'squawking' comes out, then I think we really get a clearer picture of the true feelings of the writer .

Over on one of the women's outdoor groups I'm part of, there is a discussion right now, about extra safety precautions that need taking when we start running more often in darkness or twilight.

Thats for those of us 'brave' enough to undertake such activities.

Funnily enough none of these discussions involve expecting any help from the police.

None of these discussions involve debating whether or not rape, is ever not violent .

The idea would be roundly dismissed for the total bahoolix that it is

I still think so many men fail to grasp just how much fear and extra precaution women take about the place with them , even us relatively 'brave 'ones.

I'm not sure they understand just how 'unsupported' we feel when it really comes to tackling this problem.

Police and courts are there for when all else has failed, although they often fail us, too..

Far more could be done to tackle the causes of all this at the root.

But there seems an unwillingness in so many quarters to even fully acknowledge the problem.

Let alone tackle it.

I fully agree with you, and I find it genuinely upsetting that some people behave as they do.

Nobody should have to leave their home fearing any kind of violence.

It is a pity that we seem to have created a country in which some people do.

 

[Dolorous Edd]

Nobody should have to leave their home fearing any kind of violence.

It is a pity that we seem to have created a country in which some people do.

In what sense did we 'create' this? Name a single point in our or any country's history in which nobody feared violence.

 

[swansonj]

It's a very CC thread

If this were old NACA on CC, I predict that by now, either other right wingers would have rallied to support Pale Rider and would have posted so much trolling, rule breaking, and thread diversion that the Mods would have closed it down; or one or more Mods would have done that already in defence of PR. In recent years it was almost unheard of for a thread on CC to continue once right wingers found themselves called to account for their views and out on a limb. I'm quite enjoying watching Pale Rider having to face the consequences of the offensive views he has posted rather than be saved by the mods, though clearly I would rather those offensive views hadn't been posted to start with, or better still, not actually held at all to start with.

 

[AndyRM]

In what sense did we 'create' this? Name a single point in our or any country's history in which nobody feared violence.

I chose my words poorly.

There have always been people who have feared violence in one way or another. Either here (I live in England currently) or in other countries.

 

[Dolorous Edd]

I chose my words poorly.

There have always been people who have feared violence in one way or another. Either here (I live in England currently) or in other countries.

Apologies for assuming an interpretation of your words that you did not intend

I agree with you.

 

[mudsticks]

In what sense did we 'create' this? Name a single point in our or any country's history in which nobody feared violence.

Women have feared and experienced violence the most from men, though.

They've been controlled by it.

Yet we have created and done so little of that violence.
Relatively speaking .

But we have to bear the burden, we have to take 'precautions' we have to restrict, and adapt our behaviour, to avoid 'trouble'

This is injustice, it's been going on so long, we didn't create it, but our lives are disproportionately blighted by it.

But still it goes largely unrecognised and it's still not properly addressed.

Lip service is paid.

But if we keep pointing it out we're 'man haters' or worse.

.

 

[AndyRM]

Apologies for assuming an interpretation of your words that you did not intend

I agree with you.

I appreciate and accept the apology.

 

[icowden]

The internet is famously poor at nuance, but I am genuinely curious as to whether there is much difference in meaning between the two statements.

I quoted the meaning directly above:

• Noun: behaviour involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something
• Law: the unlawful exercise of physical force or intimidation by the exhibition of such force.

Note the highlighted part. So if a woman being raped is intimidated by the exhibition of physical force - i.e. she thinks the bloke might just batter her, then despite the fact that she is not offering resistance and he is not using physical force other than to have intercourse (which is arguably a physical force) then violence is still being perpetrated upon her person.

Now there is a very murky area where consensual sex turns into something non-consensual and whether that should still be considered to be rape. Most women will, I suspect say that it is rape, whereas some men, I suspect, will feel differently. We then get into a whole investigation around biology and sexual / hormone driven imperative and whether it is possible for a man to stop, depending on the point in proceedings that has been reached, and where the woman has changed her mind about the desirability of said encounter. I would have thought that these cases are reasonably rare though.

 

[icowden]

Yet we have created and done so little of that violence.
Relatively speaking .
But we have to bear the burden, we have to take 'precautions' we have to restrict, and adapt our behaviour, to avoid 'trouble'
This is injustice, it's been going on so long, we didn't create it, but our lives are disproportionately blighted by it.

This is true and I think there is a lot to be considered in that. Men are physically bigger and stronger and biologically driven (usually) to procreate. We are intelligent animals, but it is hard to see how we can improve the situation easily on a worldwide level. A good starting point however, is to listen to women, so that we men can at least try to understand how they feel.

There is a great twitter account @manwhohasitall, run by a guy who takes banal questions that get asked of women and then turns them around. e.g.

My friend is a history teacher. She's compiling a list of great historical figures and she needs a male to add to the list. Suggestions?

By inverting some of the drivel that women get pounded with every day in magazines etc it really highlights just how stupid some of the questions / arguments are.

ALL MEN! Are you harnessing the power of pure retinol? Are you dramatically lifting and tightening sagging skin, diminishing fine lines and blitzing crepiness with a THROAT CREME? If not why not.

Men! Just a little reminder to smile this evening, because women like to SEE positive men.

ALL MEN! Can the summer ruin your looks? Should you put in a double shift when it comes to cleansing? Can having a garden give you dark under-eye circles? Is it okay to have a shadow?

 

[AndyRM]

This is true and I think there is a lot to be considered in that. Men are physically bigger and stronger and biologically driven (usually) to procreate. We are intelligent animals, but it is hard to see how we can improve the situation easily on a worldwide level. A good starting point however, is to listen to women, so that we men can at least try to understand how they feel.

There is a great twitter account @manwhohasitall, run by a guy who takes banal questions that get asked of women and then turns them around. e.g.



By inverting some of the drivel that women get pounded with every day in magazines etc it really highlights just how stupid some of the questions / arguments are.

Listening and understanding/learning is so important.

Nobody is perfect, and there are always challenges to get our heads around.

That Twitter feed looks good, I'll check it out tomorrow.

 

[mudsticks]

I fully agree with you, and I find it genuinely upsetting that some people behave as they do.

Nobody should have to leave their home fearing any kind of violence.

It is a pity that we seem to have created a country in which some people do.

Or 'we' have allowed a society to develop and perpetuate with this state of fearfulness for so many.

The needs and feelings and welfare of half the population has been seen as relatively unimportant.

As subsidiary.

It wasn't deliberately created so much as neglected into being, through lack of care and attention.

Measures that could have been put into place, such as education, and normal social expectations , were not prioritised, because the rights and needs of some people are considered less important than others.

This is true and I think there is a lot to be considered in that. Men are physically bigger and stronger and biologically driven (usually) to procreate. We are intelligent animals, but it is hard to see how we can improve the situation easily on a worldwide level. A good starting point however, is to listen to women, so that we men can at least try to understand how they feel.

There is a great twitter account @manwhohasitall, run by a guy who takes banal questions that get asked of women and then turns them around. e.g.



By inverting some of the drivel that women get pounded with every day in magazines etc it really highlights just how stupid some of the questions / arguments are.

Women are not so different to men in many ways.
Yet we are set apart as 'other' have these expectations of 'difference' loaded onto us.

Expectations which we really never asked for.

Patriachal systems have created expectations of what we should or shouldn't do, what we should want, or should be, or say or think .

And heavy 'consequences' put in place if we're not those things, that we've been 'told' we should be.

Yes listening, that would be a great start.

Instead of ignoring, dismissing, assuming or talking over .

Yup , I've come across your man who has it all .

Tbh if the 'beauty' industry had to rely on my custom it would have folded years back..

I guess that's what happens when you decide that 'how one looks'
is about 153rd on a list of "interesting and important things to think about"

I like the Classical art memes as well.

 

[swansonj]

...
You keep on about male on male rape, but without giving you a primary school sex education lesson, that is a different scenario which would require another discussion.
.....

The only implication I can draw from this is that you think that inserting a penis (or other object) into an anus requires force and therefore constitutes violence whereas inserting an object into a vagina does not require force and therefore cannot constitute violence. If so, I think you may possibly have hit a new low in your androcentric view of the world and your arrogant delight in refusing to show any interest in exploring the female experience of the world. Of course, you may have meant something else; your world view is so alien to mine I often have difficulty divining your thinking.

 

[Pale Rider]

If this were old NACA on CC, I predict that by now, either other right wingers would have rallied to support Pale Rider and would have posted so much trolling, rule breaking, and thread diversion that the Mods would have closed it down; or one or more Mods would have done that already in defence of PR. In recent years it was almost unheard of for a thread on CC to continue once right wingers found themselves called to account for their views and out on a limb. I'm quite enjoying watching Pale Rider having to face the consequences of the offensive views he has posted rather than be saved by the mods, though clearly I would rather those offensive views hadn't been posted to start with, or better still, not actually held at all to start with.

A lot of nonsense there, even for you.

The old NACA was dominated by generally left thinking posters, some of whom thought they ran the board.

Eventually, as was bound to happen, management tired of their antics, and rather be reigned in, they spat the dummy.

How many of the Great Flouncers were of the right?

I'm quite enjoying watching Pale Rider having to face the consequences of the offensive views he has posted rather than be saved by the mods,

10/10 for honesty, although your creepy obsession with me personally continues.

'Face the consequences' must surely be an attempt at irony.

Nearly every NACA post I've ever made has been slagged off in one way or another, usually by the same half dozen or so posters.

That hasn't bothered me one bit in nine years, so it isn't going to start doing so now.

You may have to seek your enjoyment elsewhere, but I'm sure it won't take you long to find something else to get offended about.

The only implication I can draw from this is that you think that inserting a penis (or other object) into an anus requires force and therefore constitutes violence whereas inserting an object into a vagina does not require force and therefore cannot constitute violence. If so, I think you may possibly have hit a new low in your androcentric view of the world and your arrogant delight in refusing to show any interest in exploring the female experience of the world. Of course, you may have meant something else; your world view is so alien to mine I often have difficulty divining your thinking.

Yet more crap wrapped up in unpleasantness.

Given your continuing personal obsession, your ignorance of me is quite startling.

 

[icowden]

Yet more crap wrapped up in unpleasantness.
Given your continuing personal obsession, your ignorance of me is quite startling.

I thought it was quite objective. Perhaps you should elucidate why you think that male rape is somehow different from female rape, in terms of force and violence? Or are you just "spitting the dummy"?