Enhanced Britishness

[Pale Rider]

" Sgt Lister dragged the woman off a sofa while she was asleep before touching her sexually while she was drifting in and out of consciousness. "

Read that over and over

Being dragged off a sofa is hardly violence, but the key point is the victim in this case didn't know whether she had been raped or not until the next morning.

I've not spoken to her, but I suspect she wouldn't allege violence, only that intercourse took place without consent.

Dragging her off a sofa?

I have respect for your opinions and your right to them, but your attitude to rape in this thread is absolutely out of order.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMON_0I6ykc

Non-consensual sex of any kind is rape, which is an act of violence.

I have posted many times that lack of consent is all that's required to prove rape.

Just because I recognise there are varying circumstances of rape doesn't mean I am excusing it or approving it.

My attitude to rape is roughly the same as any other law abiding citizen.

 

[AndyRM]

Being dragged off a sofa is hardly violence, but the key point is the victim in this case didn't know whether she had been raped or not until the next morning.

I've not spoken to her, but I suspect she wouldn't allege violence, only that intercourse took place without consent.



I have posted many times that lack of consent is all that's required to prove rape.

Just because I recognise there are varying circumstances of rape doesn't mean I am excusing it or approving it.

My attitude to rape is roughly the same as any other law abiding citizen.

"Varying circumstances of rape"... Seriously?

Rape is violence.

As is getting dragged off a sofa.

 

[Pale Rider]

"Varying circumstances of rape"... Seriously?

Absolutely, every case I've sat through is different in some way, although there are common themes.

One of those is the victim making the grim choice of submitting to intercourse to avoid a beating.

 

[Bromptonaut]

@Pale Rider has shifted his ground in this thread.

His original assertion involved a scenario where the victim calculated that by not resisting non consensual intercourse she could avoid a beating. He believes that is a non violent rape.

He's not responded to my post #318 where I suggested how he might be a victim and what his reaction might be.

The case he's now quoting involves a woman who may have been insensible at the time intercourse took place - a very different scenario.

 

[AndyRM]

Absolutely, every case I've sat through is different in some way, although there are common themes.

One of those is the victim making the grim choice of submitting to intercourse to avoid a beating.

The common theme is violence.

Because rape of any kind is an act of violence.

 

[FishFright]

I can only think pale excuse is doing all this in a bid to show Shuan how this section isn't working.

The alternative really isn't palatable to any civilised being.

 

[Pale Rider]

The case he's now quoting involves a woman who may have been insensible at the time intercourse took place - a very different scenario.

Best to take that one up with @AndyRM.

"Varying circumstances of rape"... Seriously?

 

[Pale Rider]

The alternative really isn't palatable to any civilised being.

Why is it so difficult for you to deal with someone who holds a different view?

Get a grip.

 

[winjim]

Have you read this case?

When you have, tell me where the violence occurred.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-58796000

'alleged to have attacked her'
'one count of rape and one of assault by penetration'
'dragged the woman off a sofa while she was asleep'
'touching her sexually while she was drifting in and out of consciousness'
'trying to push him away from her'

And also...

'had a child as a result of the alleged rape'

If the physical toll exerted on a woman's body during pregnancy, childbirth and childrearing, when carried out non-consensually, is not physical violence then quite frankly I don't know what is, not to mention everything else that goes with having a child, especially one conceived in such circumstances.

Have a word with yourself. Seriously. You don't have to broadcast it to us or mention it in any way. You don't have to lose face, there's no winning and losing. Just have a bit of a think about what people here are trying to tell you. Please.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Best to take that one up with @AndyRM.

No. It's you who has shifted from one premise to another.

What are your thoughts on the scenario in post #318?

 

[AndyRM]

Best to take that one up with @AndyRM.

I'm lost, what's @Bromptonaut meant to be taking up with me?

 

[Pale Rider]

No. It's you who has shifted from one premise to another.

There's no shift, the current case - comatose victim - is another example of rape without physical violence.

You keep on about male on male rape, but without giving you a primary school sex education lesson, that is a different scenario which would require another discussion.

You don't have to lose face, there's no winning and losing. Just have a bit of a think about what people here are trying to tell you. Please.

I could say the same to some posters on here who have reacted in an almost hysterical way to a contention which is not so hard to grasp.

As ever, some people say they like discussion, but in reality they don't, all they want is their fixed view reinforced.

 

[Bromptonaut]

I'm lost, what's @Bromptonaut meant to be taking up with me?

I think he deflecting after shifting his ground on what exactly a so called 'non violent rape' might constitute.

Whether the complainant in the case in West Yorkshire was subject to violence or not a complainant who is incapable through drink is not making the calculation about a beating that @Pale Rider originally asserted.

 

[Pale Rider]

I think he deflecting after shifting his ground on what exactly a so called 'non violent rape' might constitute.

Whether the complainant in the case in West Yorkshire was subject to violence or not a complainant who is incapable through drink is not making the calculation about a beating that @Pale Rider originally asserted.

Your attempts to catch me out are getting increasingly desperate.

The case of the comatose victim is relevant in that she offers no physical resistance to intercourse.

No doubt the perpetrator would have used violence if he had to, but in those circumstances there is no need for him to resort to it.

 

[Bromptonaut]

There's no shift, the current case - comatose victim - is another example of rape without physical violence.

You keep on about male on male rape, but without giving you a primary school sex education lesson, that is a different scenario which would require another discussion.

No comatose, is a different situation. It's one of the few scenarios where non violent rape might be a theoretical possibility.

Discussion of arousal etc in the Human female may be a little beyond Primary, perhaps more towards the latter end of Key Stage 3, but I don't think it's me who needs lessons.