Climate Crisis: Are we doing enough?

the snail

Regular
We have to do as much as we can, and being a wealthy nation we should be able to do more than many others. Not because we were one of the early and biggest polluters but because it is the right thing to do now.

I have no feelings of guilt at all over our historic CO2 emissions, as that was done out of scientific ignorance at the time, and we were just one of the vanguards as an 'advanced' nation, in the same way that no one can attach any guilt to Walter Raleigh for introducing tobacco to England with its toll in cancer.
More a question of responsibility than guilt. The issue of greenhouse gases has been known about since the 1820s though.
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mudsticks

Legendary Member
No of course 'we' are not doing enough

But it's difficult to do 'enough' when the vested interests, in exploiting fossil fuels for their own enrichment hold all the power.

As has been the case for decades.

As has been mentioned several time the oil companies and their industrial dependents, governments too, have been complicit in obfuscation denial and diminishing of known consequences.

Of this deliberate misuse of fossil fuels.

Sure as individuals we can try to 'do our bit'

But in a system that almost continuosly pushes back against acknowledging the magnitude of the problem, it's hard not to despair.



It feels like absolutely the last chance.

And that's only to slow down, to mitigate, to build resilience, In the face of what has been allowed to become inevitable .

It was known about.

Perhaps more out of habit, and not wanting the younger generation to see me give up hope altogether.

I'll keep going.

I heard about the dangers of CC* in the 70's and assumed that 'sensible' grown ups would have a handle on it.

Then I became a 'grown up '

Carried on hoping, campaigning, doing practical stuff, followed career paths, and a lifestyle that made sense in light of all this

Got the p*ss taken fairly regularly.

Still hoping for some action from the 'sensible' grown ups..

Hmm.

Moral of story.

The 'sensible' grown ups, are not the ones who get to make decisions on energy policy, environment, human health and wellbeing.

It's the short termists, and $€£ people who get to do that.

Sorry kids :sad:

I'd like to say I tried to do 'my bit'

But there's always that nagging feeling.

Could have done a bit more .....
 

mudsticks

Legendary Member
And you still have a diesel powered vehicle, to ease your work.

Yes indeed I do.

Although my diesel consumption is very low compared to most farms


I'd much prefer to have a battery, or hydrogen powered machine, or something similar .

And I'm sure either could have been possible, and available, many years ago if the fossil fuel industries hadn't had a stranglehold on things.

Or else of course it would be really nice if the craft of food production be valued enough, that more actual live people could be meaningfully employed in this work .

You're going to be telling us next that
"Greta had a smart phone, so she can't say anything"


You have any idea how dull, responding to stuff like this gets.??

Is it @newfhouse that has the cartoon with the supposedly 'clever' guy in it.??
 

mudsticks

Legendary Member
Not sure if this is the one you have in mind, but it seems appropriate.

View attachment 8

It wasn't, but it will do...

It will do better in fact

I like first dog, and the cheery colours 😊


The one I was thinking of had one guy saying, something like ..

"The system really needs to change"

The second said .

"Aha, but I see you are using the products of that same system"

"I am very clever"

:rolleyes:
 

mjr

Active Member
Suggesting that we can do what we like and leaving it up to the US and China isn't going to wash with the rest of the world. The UK will probably end up just as fubarred as anywhere in the end.
Probably more fubarred than many. The UK is a farking island with loads of homes built in flood zones. The government doesn't seem to realise this!
 

newfhouse

first class cockwomble
The UK is a farking island with loads of homes built in flood zones. The government doesn't seem to realise this!
I think the plan is to dump all the poor overboard so the country floats a bit higher in the water.
 

Mr Celine

Regular
As one measure, the list of top CO2 producers:

  • China.
  • The United States.
  • India.
  • The Russian Federation.
  • Japan.

Not a very good measure though. Per capita emissions are far more important and according to the table you link to down the page, per capita the UK emissions are three times that of India. Canada and Australia are three times worse per capital than the UK.

Should we be telling Indian peasants they can't have a fridge while UK motorists drive around in 4x4s?
 

mudsticks

Legendary Member
Not a very good measure though. Per capita emissions are far more important and according to the table you link to down the page, per capita the UK emissions are three times that of India. Canada and Australia are three times worse per capital than the UK.

Should we be telling Indian peasants they can't have a fridge while UK motorists drive around in 4x4s?

We definitely started it, and we definitely encouraged it all to carry on.

We have exploited other countries and sucked up their natural resources, including oil to enrich ourselves.

We have outsourced our polluting, to places like China and India and exploited the cheaper manufacturing and unregulated labour there

In order that we preserve our own green and pleasant land.

Cleaner air and water and landscapes for us..

Jolly nice for us - but we have offshored the costs and consequences elsewhere.

We even send our trash abroad :wacko:

And closer to home with all those plastic tunnels in the south of Europe where the bulk of our tomatoes, and out of season produce comes from.

We are hosting the COP this year, and it feels like very much last chance saloon.

We should be taking the lead, in a moral sense at least.

Be prepared to do the most


A lot of the 'deals' and agreements will be being done now, or have already happened.

Sadly many of the reps from global south nations can't even be there because of covid restrictions.

More injustice, heaped upon climate injustice disproportionately affecting them.

So it's tricky to know whether to go along.

Probs will anyway , if only to amplify the voices of those who are not able to attend.

And to speak up for the food producers..
 

mudsticks

Legendary Member
@mudsticks Are you not a fan of poly tunnels? If so is it the poly aspect or the tunnel (closed system) that offends?

I am a big fan of polytunnels, in their place, to the extent that I've got three quite large ones, here to stretch out the growing season .

They allow reliable cropping of some heat loving Mediterranean type crops, in the summer.

- see avatar for further details 🍆
- just a few more weeks of them now -

And they're great for more tender salad greens, and other leaves in winter.


As with all these things though, it's a case of being a bit more measured about it all .

The scale on which it's done in some places and the amounts of polythene and chemicals used, and the way those materials are is disposed of at the end of its life, that is the problem currently.

Parts of southern Europe are really blighted by it.

And the working conditions in some of those places can be pretty toxic.

We need to become more aware of what's going on there.

The expectation of the consumer / supermarket buyers, is that they should have access to all varieties of everything - all year round -.

So that other countries land and water and resources get exploited and polluted to feed our particular fancies, that is the problem.

We just need to rein ourselves, and our expectations in a bit, if we're going to live within our means.

It's tricky because many people have come to expect the same things year round.
And we do want people eating more veg, but just more seasonal veg, perhaps .

Protected cropping in the form of polytunnels, or glasshouses, in this country can be a really valuable thing, for our diets definitely..

If we do it carefully, and if we take responsibility for the whole life cycle of all the materials used.

We probs need to have more polytunnels here..sensitively sited ..
And we need to grow more of our own food in them.

Particularly more fresh stuff for our cities, bring back more commercial scale, peri urban food growing, even.

It could contribute a lot, health-wise, environmentally and economically.

It all just needs a bit better long term planning, and support.

Making all that happen is the tricky part, of course..
 
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swansonj

Regular
May I ask you, Fabbers, as a genuine and hopefully respectful question, how you reconcile in your mind your concern for the climate crisis with your job that involves a lot of flying?

My former job involved a fair bit of flying, probably not as much as you but still a couple of USA trips each year and half a dozen European. I was becoming uneasy about it, as my awareness of climate change strengthened and my cognitive dissonance defence mechanisms weakened, but not so uneasy that I actually did anything about it. Then the problem was solved for me personally by the opportunity to take voluntary redundancy, and since then I've only flown once, to visit a dying relative (though is even that a valid excuse?) But that's of course a cop out, because the lady who took over my role is now doing many of the same flights, or will be once travel restrictions lift.

I was therefore lucky because the point in my life where my unease about flying was growing coincided with the point in my life where it was natural and easy to fly less. I sense you are not yet at that point, still in a job that you enjoy and think is worthwhile but which involves lots of flying, so I'd be genuinely interested in how you reconcile the competing issues?
 

Fab Foodie

Veteran
May I ask you, Fabbers, as a genuine and hopefully respectful question, how you reconcile in your mind your concern for the climate crisis with your job that involves a lot of flying?

My former job involved a fair bit of flying, probably not as much as you but still a couple of USA trips each year and half a dozen European. I was becoming uneasy about it, as my awareness of climate change strengthened and my cognitive dissonance defence mechanisms weakened, but not so uneasy that I actually did anything about it. Then the problem was solved for me personally by the opportunity to take voluntary redundancy, and since then I've only flown once, to visit a dying relative (though is even that a valid excuse?) But that's of course a cop out, because the lady who took over my role is now doing many of the same flights, or will be once travel restrictions lift.

I was therefore lucky because the point in my life where my unease about flying was growing coincided with the point in my life where it was natural and easy to fly less. I sense you are not yet at that point, still in a job that you enjoy and think is worthwhile but which involves lots of flying, so I'd be genuinely interested in how you reconcile the competing issues?
You may Sir. And it's a very good and genuine question that I don't reconcile very easily....

Firstly I almost never fly for personal reasons. We did take a family holiday a long while back to Florida which was the one occasion we holidayed as a family by plane in 25 years.

Secondly, I fly for business simply because the job cannot be done without travelling. When I can drive instead (I have several customers within 4 hours of Calais) I generally take that option. Trains offer poor flexibility.

I guess there's part of an argument saying that if it wasn't me it would be someone else doing the companies bidding. Until the company changes the way it supports it's customers - i.e. by having many local specialist, this is how we'll go on. But that would mean an awful lot of people with specific skillsets in a lot of locations with a footprint of a lot of combined travelling and other human-used resource involved too* Maybe one Foodie dashing here there and everywhere even by plane might actually be a better and more targeted 'low carbon' option - and yes, I love what I do, including the travel. It's a very niche expertise that supports an impressive sized business** giving pleasure to millions.

*In some regions such as Russia and the Middle East we now have local technical centres and expertise, hence I rarely support those geographies anymore from the UK (unless they're in trouble), but even so, when based in both Russia and Middle east you still have to fly to cover the customer territory.

**Actually, this is the greater dissonance for me personally than flying. I struggle heartily when we come to discussing 'Green initiatives' as a business - it's like shuffling the deck-chairs on the Titanic... I also increasingly struggle with meat (particularly red meat) consumption too.
But, I need the money at the moment and I don't know how to do much else (and nobody does it better ;-) ) - though I'd happily work for some local Artisanal company if the right opportunity arose.
 
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