American bombshell? Roe vs. Wade....

[winjim]

If abortions make Unkraut so sad, I recommend that he simply doesn't have one. Meanwhile, in the real world, sadness is just one possible emotion involved in having an abortion - it's not an inevitable one, and rarely an over-riding one. Whilst few would find the experience of abortion in itself joyous, relief is probably the most obvious emotional response, and is anything but temporary - abortion is literally life-saving for many women, dramatically life-improving for most who choose it, and at the very least misery-mitigating for those whose lives are already the most difficult. But of course those aren't the lives that matter to forced birthers. Liberation from the misery and torture of unwanted pregnancy and forced birth is a public good, enabling more joy in the lives of women, men, and children.

A decent counselling and support structure with specialist staff trained in reproductive choices might be a start. I don't know what there is in place right now and maybe not all women will need it but we should not just give women the choice, but support them in that choice.

 

[theclaud]

A decent counselling and support structure with specialist staff trained in reproductive choices might be a start. I don't know what there is in place right now and maybe not all women will need it but we should not just give women the choice, but support them in that choice.

Yes that's true, but in fact most women have already made up their minds by the time they are talking to a professional, and the people most keen on a lot of talking are often those who want to stop them getting what they need. As it is, even in this country, good support involves helping women to get over paternalistic hurdles to access a simple procedure they already know they need.

 

[spen666]

...

Laws have been enacted in the States to allow abortion up to birth and as far as I know without needing a reason. In the case of very late abortions if the baby survives it is illegal to try to save it.

1. Can you name any state that allows abortion up to birth without needing a reason?

2. Can you name any state where it is illegal to save a baby born alive?


I would be interested to know so I can go and look up their laws and the reasons for such laws...if they exist

 

[mudsticks]

Yes that's true, but in fact most women have already made up their minds by the time they are talking to a professional, and the people most keen on a lot of talking are often those who want to stop them getting what they need. As it is, even in this country, good support involves helping women to get over paternalistic hurdles to access a simple procedure they already know they need.

Medical abortion is still not a right in this country..
Only an absence of prosecution ,so long as TWO* doctors agree it's in the woman's best interest..

*Pretty maddeningly patronising in and of itself.. Apart from guarding against coercion into having a termination, and I don't think this is the reason given for the need for these two 'permissions'

 

[theclaud]

There are, of course, many cases where women are heartbroken (for all sorts of reasons) about having an abortion, but heartbreaking choices are a part of life. People are often sad about making the right decision. I'd mention divorce as an obvious example, but of course Unkers would like to stop women doing that as well.

 

[winjim]

I have to say I'm not entirely sure how 'foetus' is a euphemism yet 'unborn' isn't.

I can't recall what the other term mentioned was, but the one used in healthcare that I'm aware of is 'products of conception' which covers things which are not a foetus and cannot and will not ever become a baby, born or otherwise.

 

[Rusty Nails]

There are, of course, many cases where women are heartbroken (for all sorts of reasons) about having an abortion, but heartbreaking choices are a part of life. People are often sad about making the right decision. I'd mention divorce as an obvious example, but of course Unkers would like to stop women doing that as well.

I don't like getting into discussions like this, firstly because it is an issue that affects women most of all and the decision-making establishment is predominantly male, and secondly because my mother, me my brother and sister, my children, my grand-daughter, my nephews and nieces would not exist if abortion had been freely available in the past.

It is not, nor should it ever be, a trivial decision to make and I completely support the woman's right to choose. The alternative is worse for society.

 

[BoldonLad]

Out of interest, does anyone, expressing an opinion, have first hand experience of having an abortion, or, the aftermath thereof?

Clearly, the male posters, by definition, have not.

As a male, I recognise that my opinion is secondary, indeed, perhaps, irrelevant, but, for the record, I am am pro-choice.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Out of interest, does anyone, expressing an opinion, have first hand experience of having an abortion, or, the aftermath thereof?

Why would that matter?

 

[PK99]

We could have a written constitution that is subject to regular updates in the light of new developments .

Would that really be so difficult??

Yes it would. The constitution would be subject to political whim.

 

[winjim]

Out of interest, does anyone, expressing an opinion, have first hand experience of having an abortion, or, the aftermath thereof?

Clearly, the male posters, by definition, have not.

As a male, I recognise that my opinion is secondary, indeed, perhaps, irrelevant, but, for the record, I am am pro-choice.

WTF?

 

[BoldonLad]

Why would that matter?

Well, it may have a bearing on the degree to which I (and/or others) consider their view on the subject relevant, in a similar way to the fact that my views (as a male) may, not unreasonably, be considered less relevant, because I cannot become pregnant and, thus, cannot want/need/undergo an abortion.

I assume, when considering an opinion, you hear/read, you consider the education/experience and other characteristics of the person expressing the opinion? Maybe not, how would I know?

 

[mudsticks]

Yes it would. The constitution would be subject to political whim.

Well of course there would have to be a great deal of process hearings, reviews, ethics committees, public consultations etc to go through before anything could be changed..

Just as would be necessary before a constitution could be written..

Not like with our present government where our rights can seemingly be struck out so easily, by pushing through all kinds of awful stuff on the back of a fptp 'majority'

Well, it may have a bearing on the degree to which I (and/or others) consider their view on the subject relevant, in a similar way to the fact that my views (as a male) may, not unreasonably, be considered less relevant, because I cannot become pregnant and, thus, cannot want/need/undergo an abortion.

I assume, when considering an opinion, you hear/read, you consider the education/experience and other characteristics of the person expressing the opinion? Maybe not, how would I know?

Claud has recommended some quality reading above .

How about start there...👍🏼

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Well, it may have a bearing on the degree to which I (and/or others) consider their view on the subject relevant, in a similar way to the fact that my views (as a male) may, not unreasonably, be considered less relevant, because I cannot become pregnant and, thus, cannot want/need/undergo an abortion.

I assume, when considering an opinion, you hear/read, you consider the education/experience and other characteristics of the person expressing the opinion? Maybe not, how would I know?

But it doesn’t matter if any particular woman voicing an opinion on this thread has had an abortion or not. All that matters is that she could be in the position where she has to make that choice.

And it’s her choice to make.

 

[BoldonLad]

Well of course there would have to be a great deal of process hearings, reviews, ethics committees, public consultations etc to go through before anything could be changed..

Just as would be necessary before a constitution could be written..

Not like with our present government where our rights can seemingly be struck out so easily, by pushing through all kinds of awful stuff on the back of a fptp 'majority'


Claud has recommended some quality reading above .

How about start there...👍🏼

I have already said, I am pro-choice, I don't need to be convinced