American bombshell? Roe vs. Wade....

[mudsticks]

I have already said, I am pro-choice, I don't need to be convinced

So why on earth are you trying to pry into the experience of other posters on here.??

What's your motivation, if we can ask you such a question??

Or would that be too intrusive??

 

[theclaud]

It's not rocket science to figure out why women might want to keep the details of their reproductive choices private. And 'aftermath' has connotations of preceding catastrophe, whereas the most usual result of abortion is that women can simply continue living.

 

[newfhouse]

Well, it may have a bearing on the degree to which I (and/or others) consider their view on the subject relevant

Maybe not you, but some people are happy to show disdain for even their own mother’s experiences.

View: https://twitter.com/david_challen/status/1541891303843266562?s=21&t=V_NZcVL3dd8gZlQyNSK55g

 

[BoldonLad]

So why on earth are you trying to pry into the experience of other posters on here.??

What's your motivation, if we can ask you such a question??

Or would that be too intrusive??

I stated my reason already. No-one is forced to answer.

 

[mudsticks]

I stated my reason already. No-one is forced to answer.

But to even think you might ask, and expect to be told, shows a breathtaking lack of taste..

Not that that's surprising given previous posting history..

I wouldn't dream of asking posters here to share their personal medical history ...

If they wish to discuss it then fine, that's up to them..

Meanwhile an individuals history has no bearing on the principal of a woman's right to autonomy over her own body, which you claim to support.

Individual histories neither add nor subtract from that..

I don't like getting into discussions like this, firstly because it is an issue that affects women most of all and the decision-making establishment is predominantly male, and secondly because my mother, me my brother and sister, my children, my grand-daughter, my nephews and nieces would not exist if abortion had been freely available in the past.

It is not, nor should it ever be, a trivial decision to make and I completely support the woman's right to choose. The alternative is worse for society.

Im pretty sure you mean well Rusty so this isn't particularly directed at you, but can we do away with the myth that the decision to have a termination is always 'angst ridden' , and will almost invariably lead to 'difficult feelings' at the time and or in the future..

It's something Unkraut was trying to propose, and is often used against women to try to dissuade them, that they will
"Always regret it"

Just as women are still now told that they will "regret" not having children at all.

It's all in the same set of tropes that routinely seeks to infantalise, and disempower women..

Of course it's also possible for women to be forced into terminations too.
The flip side of people trying to 'control' women and their bodies.

Women have, and need terminations for all kinds of reasons..

From the highly mundane..trivial even, such as their contraception failing, they had no wish to have a child at that time so they want to terminated the pregnancy asap..

So hurrah for the morning after pill too, huh??

Right up to all the other 'extreme' reasons given in circs such as Cookies "I stand with poster"..

The like of which can in my view muddy the waters somewhat, and leave the door open to suggestions that in more 'mundane' 'everyday' situations women's bodily autonomy is not relevant, and that abortion should not be 'allowed' .

Our bodily autonomy is always relevent...

Our bodies, our choice, to carry, or not to carry.
End of story.


The best thing the 'good guys' can do is just keep amplifying that message, because it does seem that there's a large cohort who don't want to hear our voices, nor support our human rights.


Why is that??

It's not rocket science to figure out why women might want to keep the details of their reproductive choices private. And 'aftermath' has connotations of preceding catastrophe, whereas the most usual result of abortion is that women can simply continue living.

Yup..

 

[BoldonLad]

But to even think you might ask, and expect to be told, shows a breathtaking lack of taste..

Not that that's surprising given previous posting history..

I wouldn't dream of asking posters here to share their personal medical history ...

If they wish to discuss it then fine, that's up to them..

Meanwhile an individuals history has no bearing on the principal of a woman's right to autonomy over her own body, which you claim to support.

Individual histories neither add nor subtract from that..

Please feel free to show me where I did say that (the bolded bit)

 

[qigong chimp]

​

It's down to me, woah, yeah, the way she talks when she's spoken to
Down to me, the change has come, she's under myyyy thumb..

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsZd19VJJ9Q

 

[Milkfloat]

Out of interest, does anyone, expressing an opinion, have first hand experience of having an abortion, or, the aftermath thereof?

Don't tell him Pike! After all, Unkers might use the information and grass to his boss.

 

[mudsticks]

I have already said, I am pro-choice, I don't need to be convinced

Please feel free to show me where I did say that (the bolded bit)

You've already said that you're pro choice, and that's what I said you said..

Or does a woman having autonomy over her body mean something else to you..

 

[Rusty Nails]

Im pretty sure you mean well Rusty so this isn't particularly directed at you, but can we do away with the myth that the decision to have a termination is always 'angst ridden' , and will almost invariably lead to 'difficult feelings' at the time and or in the future..

It's something Unkraut was trying to propose, and is often used against women to try to dissuade them, that they will
"Always regret it"

Just as women are still now told that they will "regret" not having children at all.

It's all in the same set of tropes that routinely seeks to infantalise, and disempower women..

As in many debates about important human issues the decision making is not always clear-cut for the individual concerned. For some this choice is a logical, clear, in fact the only, choice to make, while for others it will be 'angst ridden'. Human emotions don't come in a one-size-fits-all package.

Whatever decision is made there should be no right/wrong or blame to be apportioned to the woman by others. The tragedy is that a large chunk of society cannot/will not resist doing just that for whatever reason.

 

[mudsticks]

As in many debates about important human issues the decision making is not always clear-cut for the individual concerned. For some this choice is a logical, clear, in fact the only, choice to make, while for others it will be 'angst ridden'. Human emotions don't come in a one-size-fits-all package.

Whatever decision is made there should be no right/wrong or blame to be apportioned to the woman by others. The tragedy is that a large chunk of society cannot/will not resist doing just that for whatever reason.

Yes the first part was what I said..

I was saying that it's not right to suggest that it's 'always' a difficult decision..
Or that women 'always' feel 'angst ridden' about it.

It comes up in so much lazy journalism.

I think it was yesterday that I suggested that given a lot of womens tendencies to feel guilt almost as a default in many situations, it's quite possible that many women feel guilty for not feeling guilty about seeking a termination..

Especially when it's so often suggested that it's 'nearly always' a really traumatic decision, or experience.

That's a falsehood.

Which is where your second part is so relevant..

And it's religious types who are often so good at 'judging' other peoples personal decisions, which are nothing to do with them..

Silently judging is one thing..
That's not hurting anyone but the 'judger'

Actively trying to stand in the way of other peoples personal medical decisions, about their own bodies is quite another.

 

[mudsticks]

And even The Bible has very little to say on this..
Not that that would make much odds either way, if you weren't a Christian adherent.

https://theconversation.com/the-bib...-political-decision-not-a-biblical-one-185858

So it does seem, again, to come down to wanting to diminish or deny the bodily autonomy of women, for reasons other..

🤔

 

[mudsticks]

Just in case anyone thought the UK was so very much more enlightened on womens reproductive or human rights...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-and-wales-after-miscarriages-and-stillbirths

We are still subject to laws made two centuries ago ...

Laws made before we had a pretty much any rights to bodily autonomy, or indeed before we had rights as full persons in the eyes of the law.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Many years ago - I was still living with my parents at the time - a new article came on the radio about abortion

My Mum commented that she couldn't understand how any woman could do that

I knew my Mum had had several miscarriages - so it was a sensitive subject for her.

Some time later - after my Mum had gone out - I talked to my Dad about it.
My opinion was - and is - that anyone who cannot understand why a woman would do this - is automatically not qualified to judge someone who does
because there MUST be a reason
good or bad it seems good to them and unless you properly understand exactly why then you cannot judge.
And you cannot know exactly why without an in depth honest discussion with them
which you have no right to do - unless they ask you to
and even then you should not do so except in a sympathetic manner unless you are a proper professional counsellor
and if you are then you should not be judging

and if you are male then how can you properly understand what being pregnant is like


which makes a lot of the total carp coming out of the USA extremely 'annoying' - to say the least

far to many people in the world judging people for just because they feel entitled to

 

[AuroraSaab]

I would imagine from your mum's point of view that having wanted a child so much, and having had miscarriages, her view of pregnancy was as a much wanted gift. She obviously found it difficult to see that other women didn't see it that way. I'm sure that at other points in her life she would have had a more sympathetic view of other women's circumstances.