Tory MP stabbed

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mudsticks

Squire
Wow, can't even give the dead MP the respect of using his christian name? Startling. Or maybe just too lazy to spend more than 0.7 seconds on a Conservative, who has been praised by politicians of all stripes for his honesty, warmth and integrity. Still, I assume in your mind they are all Nazi scum who deserve a good killing?

But I guess we shouldn't be surprised to get that from calling someone who is happy to start a thread describing someone who clearly isn't a Nazi, as a Nazi. Is that really considered by yourself to be a perfectly respectable way to promote the harmony and toning down the rhetoric of hate in politics and political debate in the country right now?

Said nobody here, that's all your assuming .

And a baseless and preposterous assumption too.

We are allowed to object when what 'our' government proposes doing in 'our' name, is nothing short of hateful..

And we might object using pretty strong language too, without it being interpreted as a 'death threat' .


Such as for instance proposals that Border Force staff who enact Priti Patel’s plans to “push back” migrant boats in the Channel could be given immunity from conviction if a refugee dies.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...e-could-be-given-immunity-over-refugee-deaths

Are we just supposed to shrug at this sort of thing??

Or applaud it even .

The government propose something like this.

And we're the 'bad guys' for being appalled ??

Surely any half decent human would object to this kind of thing in very strong language.

Certainly I'd have thought, any MP praised for his 'honesty, warmth and integrity'

When we cease to be outraged, that's when we're in trouble.
 

Craig the cyclist

Über Member
Said nobody here, that's all your assuming .

And a baseless and preposterous assumption too.

We are allowed to object when what 'our' government proposes doing in 'our' name, is nothing short of hateful..

And we might object using pretty strong language too, without it being interpreted as a 'death threat' .


Such as for instance proposals that Border Force staff who enact Priti Patel’s plans to “push back” migrant boats in the Channel could be given immunity from conviction if a refugee dies.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...e-could-be-given-immunity-over-refugee-deaths

Are we just supposed to shrug at this sort of thing??

Or applaud it even .

The government propose something like this.

And we're the 'bad guys' for being appalled ??

Surely any half decent human would object to this kind of thing in very strong language.

Certainly I'd have thought, any MP praised for his 'honesty, warmth and integrity'

When we cease to be outraged, that's when we're in trouble.
But do you think that @Fab Foodie should have used his christian name as a small sign of respect for a well respected MP on all sides of the political divide? He used the christian names of all the others.

Or does he really not deserve respect as he was a Tory?
 

mudsticks

Squire
But do you think that @Fab Foodie should have used his christian name as a small sign of respect for a well respected MP on all sides of the political divide? He used the christian names of all the others.

Or does he really not deserve respect as he was a Tory?


I'm sure FF would be happy to amend his post if so required, I don't expect it was deliberate disrespect, more likely speed typing.

You'd have to ask him, to know the actual answer to that..

You seem to do a lot of rather baseless projection, when it comes to other peoples motives.

However I'd say it was a fairly small sin of omission, compared with your overt suggestion that he actually wants people to be murdered.


But anyhow, you've said on other threads , that you're only here for the giggles, at the expense of 'the lefties' which in itself seems pretty disrespectful, around subjects like this, not to mention fairly sad, and pointless.

No one here is even a top class comedian
(sorry guys)

So I don't really see any point in further engaging with your posts Tbh.

Energy not well spent..
 

deptfordmarmoset

Über Member
But do you think that @Fab Foodie should have used his christian name as a small sign of respect for a well respected MP on all sides of the political divide? He used the christian names of all the others.

Or does he really not deserve respect as he was a Tory?
If you're that concerned about respect, and you refuse the ''first name'' convention, how about giving Christian a capital letter? It would be, how should I put it, respectful.
 
I'm sure FF would be happy to amend his post if so required, I don't expect it was deliberate disrespect, more likely speed typing.

You'd have to ask him, to know the actual answer to that..

You seem to do a lot of rather baseless projection, when it comes to other peoples motives.

However I'd say it was a fairly small sin of omission, compared with your overt suggestion that he actually wants people to be murdered.


But anyhow, you've said on other threads , that you're only here for the giggles, at the expense of 'the lefties' which in itself seems pretty disrespectful, around subjects like this, not to mention fairly sad, and pointless.

No one here is even a top class comedian
(sorry guys)

So I don't really see any point in further engaging with your posts Tbh.

Energy not well spent..
Blimey! What sin have I commited now? Have I upset the troll?
I did write a post this morning whilst having a quick and hugely satisfying Schitt, is that not allowed anymore?
 
OP
OP
Beebo

Beebo

Veteran
The suspect is being held under anti terror legislation for further questioning.
He was previously referred to the Prevent Scheme, which suggests he has history.
 
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...atred-aimed-at-our-mps?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

in fact we could do with ending hatred full stop.
Lot of talk over the last 48 hours about how divided and angry this country has become. I whole heartedly agree, but the rot started at the top. Politicians need to get their own house in order first. Whilst there are many David Amess’ and other decent backbench public servants, the top table (in particular under Johnson) has shown itself to be made of blatant liars, the corrupt, and the morally bankrupt, none of whom give one toss about the average Joe.
Unfortunately the behaviour at the top (I can’t bring myself to use the word ‘Leadership’) tars the decent sloggers down the lower orders with the same brush.

The Tabloid press also needs to give itself a hard look too, they are the amplifiers of divisive politics and hate.

The hypocrisy of a government which has as part of it’s agenda of a ‘war on woke’ whining about the rise of hatred towards them is astonishing. They sow the seeds of the rage against themselves. Physician, heal thyself….
 

Pale Rider

Veteran
but the rot started at the top

The rot needs to stop at the bottom.

Posting threads such as 'Priti Nazi' and posting general unpleasant abuse of politicians is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

As is liking posts that abuse other members purely because you disagree with that member.

You are in no position to brand the government hypocritical when you are guilty of hypocrisy yourself.
 
The rot needs to stop at the bottom.

Posting threads such as 'Priti Nazi' and posting general unpleasant abuse of politicians is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

As is liking posts that abuse other members purely because you disagree with that member.

You are in no position to brand the government hypocritical when you are guilty of hypocrisy yourself.
Perhaps if politicians did not behave as Nazi’s then we could not label them as such. Wouldn’t that be nice?
Let the bodies pile-up eh?


Let’s really look at where the problem really starts, and the clue is that it’s not cheap shots on the backwaters of the internet, but the moral vacuum at the top and the system that propagates it.

I (and am sure others) are looking forward to reviewing your own evidence of my own hypocrisy so we can all learn a valuable lesson in decorum….
 
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Craig the cyclist

Über Member
in fact we could do with ending hatred full stop.
But you post about Nazis
The Tabloid press also needs to give itself a hard look too, they are the amplifiers of divisive politics and hate.
But you post about one particular section being 'liars, corrupt and morally bankrupt'
The hypocrisy of a government
But don't see any hypocrisy in your behaviour and postings
They sow the seeds of the rage against themselves.
And now we are there, you really think it was David Amess's own fault for being part of a Conservative MP




*Cue post about me being a troll because I disagree with him
 

qigong chimp

Settler of gobby hash.
Is it too early decently to enquire why this MP, whatever his name was, submitted to being murdered in this manner? Ought MPs to be a bit more streetwise, exercise a bit more responsibility and know instinctively when a constituent wants to meet to kill them rather than mither on about the bins and parking charges?

And is it not time to de-anonymise social media accounts? Not in response to the online abuse suffered by women and minorities, let's be clear, but MPs surely don't deserve it.
 
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mudsticks

Squire
The rot needs to stop at the bottom.

Posting threads such as 'Priti Nazi' and posting general unpleasant abuse of politicians is part of the problem, not part of the solution.

As is liking posts that abuse other members purely because you disagree with that member.

You are in no position to brand the government hypocritical when you are guilty of hypocrisy yourself.

Oh give it a rest, you're probably one of the most* 'insulting' people on here.

And often seem quite proud of your allegedly 'robust' or 'colourful' language, when used against people with whom you don't agree..

If I was that bored I could trawl through your posts for a many many examples, of where you've quite happily insulted people, what they say, or how they say it.

But yeah it's ok for you to do it, because you're some kind of self styled, right wing 'shoot from the hip' 'tell-it-like-it-is' 'maverick'.

Right ?

Nope, it's mostly just populist diatribe.

* Sorry you don't quite get the top slot.

Politicians should be leading by example.
By their words yes, but also by their actions.

Sounds like David Amess did that on the whole, although I would have disagreed with some of his views.

Of course no one here thinks he deserved to be murdered, no one here is saying he did.

Although some posters have tried to suggest that they are..

Our current government should be held to account for their actions and omissions that have had severe, even fatal consequences, for many people.

Many of them say wholly unacceptable things, in public. Johnson included.
To try to stir up hatred against certain groups or institutions.

If people aren't very upset about that, and aren't prepared to say so, then they're clearly not paying attention.
 
Seems I’m not alone then….but improving the language is only tackling the symptoms not the root cause.

Political debate has coarsened. We MPs can take the lead in restoring calm and respect
Alison McGovern

It might not look like it to outsiders but when practised properly, politics is an antidote to cynicism

Published: 07:00 Sunday, 17 October 2021
Follow Alison McGovern
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The feelings are so visceral. Sir David Amess’s family are the first and last thought. I cannot imagine what this is like for them, but I feel devastating horror that again a family is without a beloved and needed member. I want to scream. Many of us have been thrown back five years, our heads full of gut-wrenching memories and the horrible reality of an MP stolen from us in the heart of the place they served.
David Amess latest: Priti Patel says MPs ‘cannot be cowed by any individual’
There aren’t many similarities between Jo Cox and David. She had served for just a year, he for the best part of 40 years – a lifetime of service. But the visceral feelings are the same. As Jo’s husband, Brendan, said, it is his family who matter now. Their deep love for David should be celebrated alongside the lifetime that he gave in the service of others.
I watched an interview David gave to Iain Dale. He talked about his love of the Commons and the truth of it shines through: doing politics won’t always get you universal respect, but done well, it can make you a better person.
The journey many of us go on, from tribal party loyalist to enjoying the company of those we disagree with, to seeing their reasons and their values and actually understanding them, is one that is common to all sides. You’ll rarely read about it. But politics, correctly practised, can be the best antidote to cynicism there is.
I started my life as an MP cynical about Westminster and I am all too aware of its failings now. But I have learned from David and his generation of MPs that making an argument in the House of Commons works best when there are people listening, when there are others around you to be persuaded, when there is agreement to be found and identified among the disagreement.
If I am still sceptical about political media of all forms – old and new, print, broadcast and social – it is not just because of the tone often taken, but because of this: how, in the current environment, can we show that we are listening to each other? How can we help others to feel heard?
What Jo understood so clearly, and what David talked about in that interview is how we make progress not just by rallying those who are in our tribe. How finding a few other people quite different from yourself, but with whom you have something in common is a powerful tool in changing the country for the better.
If I could say one thing to the politicians who will come after me, it would be this: Jo’s words now written on the wall of the House of Commons – “More in Common” – are not there to remind you what she said. They are an organising instruction. They are there to tell you how to move our country on.
I know many people will find it hard to understand how the bickering they see from us correlates with that instruction. Can it really be the case that the political world forever at war with itself could be any good at bringing people together? True, it is hard sometimes but the answer is not to give up, and David never did, on any of the many campaigns he ran. The answer is to listen more. Think hard about where others are coming from. Empathy, understanding, compassion. These are the skills that make our politics function.
The truth of it shines through: doing politics won’t always get you universal respect, but done well, it can make you a better person
So, as we once again face the horrendous reality before us and turn to the many practical tasks ahead – whether that is the security consequences or the social media norms that have to change – my thoughts keep returning to the lessons of life.
The reason why we carry on meeting our constituents in person is that it is indispensable in creating the bond of empathy. I remember the first piece of casework I did as a local councillor as if it were yesterday. I could tell you the woman’s name. I can see her face. And I could tell physically how the stress of her situation was weighing her down.
That human-to-human connection made me not just want to help, but to understand. I am sure it is the same for everyone in politics: what use are we unless we are of use to others? It is what makes it mean something. It is what makes politics mean anything at all. We must be able to help people safely and securely and, most especially, our staff must be safe.
Most importantly today, I’m thinking of the Conservatives and others who spoke up for Jo when she was killed and those friends who will be in an irreparable darkness today. I want them to know that they are loved and that David’s killing will be hard to bear but that all of us in politics and in the country join them in sorrow.
And the crucial lesson is one learned through experience. Companionship, empathy and compassion are the unseen strengths of British politics. It has carried me through the past five years and it will be the path for a better future for all of us.
Alison McGovern is MP for Wirral South and shadow minister (Digital, Culture, Media and Sport)
 
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