Oh no!! Brexit not going quite as well as hoped

[Deleted member 49]

Not Corbyn level hate and less so recently, but yes.

Even the Times is giving him a break with this Fecking ghoul !
We should be distancing ourselves from the likes of Mandleson and Blair ffs.

 

[newfhouse]

Relax, it’s only an opinion piece.

 

[mudsticks]

Oh great..

https://www.cityam.com/brits-will-h...al-for-post-brexit-trips-to-europe-from-2022/

 

[Fab Foodie]

Oh great..

https://www.cityam.com/brits-will-h...al-for-post-brexit-trips-to-europe-from-2022/

FFS. Taking back control of their borders....

No doubt we'll reciprocate - but at double the amount. After all, they want to come here more than we want to go there....

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

Brexit is a bit like putting on a production of Wagner's Ring Cycle using cats for opera singers.

Quote of the year so far.

 

[FishFright]

The only positive thing about him...

I agree with you about that tory shill but I will be voting Labour again as it's the best option locally and and nationally.

A small amount of competent opposition would make this a lot easier though.

 

[Deleted member 49]

I agree with you about that tory shill but I will be voting Labour again as it's the best option locally and and nationally.

A small amount of competent opposition would make this a lot easier though.

Making a note to cross you off my likes list as I speak 😁

 

[Deleted member 49]

The race to the bottom continues...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59903232

 

[theclaud]

If Labour keep a massive distance away from Brexit but come into the election cycle with coherent policies around the NHS, Social care, taxation, green energy and climate change, sustainable business growth (and probably a plan to combat the inflation / low wage growth period we seem to barreling towards) then I think that would be good enough for me.

If you concede that 'respect the referendum result' was the closest it was feasible for Labour to get to 'keeping away' from Brexit at the time, this is more or less what Labour did in 2017, with a bit more vision and ambition. And it served them well. Starmer's strategy has been to distance himself from all of this and wrap himself in flags. I'll be amazed if that's good enough for anyone much, outside of PLP-media bubble.

I'll almost certainly vote Labour at the next GE - I'm in a key Labour-Tory marginal (we took it back convincingly in 2017 after Labour lost it to the Tories by 27 votes in 2015 - before that it was one of the three joint longest-held seats in the UK, electing a Labour MP since 1906), and my MP, whilst her politics are much more centrist or at least softer left than I would like, is a mostly well-liked local MP with feminist credentials who votes progressively and was not an overt wrecker during the Corbyn era. She's strongly pro-EU - defied Starmer over the trade deal vote and resigned as PPS. I'm what you might call a Weak/Eurosceptic Remain voter who was opposed to the so-called 'People's Vote' campaign and finds EU flag-shaggers only slightly less weird than Union-Jack shaggers, but she's been frank and consistent on the issue, and we had Green Party members and even a few Lexiteers join us cheerfully on the 2017 Labour doorstep to get a Labour MP elected.

Which brings me to one of the other problems with Starmer - who's going to do all of that stuff for a party or a leader so contemptuous and hostile to its own member/activist base? I've stayed in the party for the simple reason that it gets me a vote in stuff like NEC elections, and because dwindling membership and crumbling democracy is what the current leadership and Blairite factions want. I'm obviously too much of a nobody for my support of the Palestinians or other forbidden causes to attract the attentions of the Starmer-Evans witchfinders, but I've got friends who have been persecuted, suspended, expelled... I'll struggle with the motivation even to stick a poster up this time round (I live opposite a polling station, so get me on side and your name on a huge red board is the last thing voters see before they go into the booth). I'm not realistically going to to encourage anyone undecided to vote Labour, because I don't have a good reason to offer them beyond 'to keep the Tories out', and after the most demoralising and exhausting few years in memory I'm not going to give up hours of my time to trudge around in the rain getting the vote out. Everyone gets cross with Adam because he might not be arsed to vote for Starmer, but Adam is very much not his biggest problem, except as a barometer of his dire leadership. If you can't even get Adam to vote Labour, how are you going to persuade @BoldonLad? Let alone the Deliveroo rider whose first chance to vote in a GE is the next one, or the student with no prospect of a job who thinks they're all the same anyway and it's raining so we might as well just forget it and get pissed.

 

[BoldonLad]

If you concede that 'respect the referendum result' was the closest it was feasible for Labour to get to 'keeping away' from Brexit at the time, this is more or less what Labour did in 2017, with a bit more vision and ambition. And it served them well. Starmer's strategy has been to distance himself from all of this and wrap himself in flags. I'll be amazed if that's good enough for anyone much, outside of PLP-media bubble.

I'll almost certainly vote Labour at the next GE - I'm in a key Labour-Tory marginal (we took it back convincingly in 2017 after Labour lost it to the Tories by 27 votes in 2015 - before that it was one of the three joint longest-held seats in the UK, electing a Labour MP since 1906), and my MP, whilst her politics are much more centrist or at least softer left than I would like, is a mostly well-liked local MP with feminist credentials who votes progressively and was not an overt wrecker during the Corbyn era. She's strongly pro-EU - defied Starmer over the trade deal vote and resigned as PPS. I'm what you might call a Weak/Eurosceptic Remain voter who was opposed to the so-called 'People's Vote' campaign and finds EU flag-shaggers only slightly less weird than Union-Jack shaggers, but she's been frank and consistent on the issue, and we had Green Party members and even a few Lexiteers join us cheerfully on the 2017 Labour doorstep to get a Labour MP elected.

Which brings me to one of the other problems with Starmer - who's going to do all of that stuff for a party or a leader so contemptuous and hostile to its own member/activist base? I've stayed in the party for the simple reason that it gets me a vote in stuff like NEC elections, and because dwindling membership and crumbling democracy is what the current leadership and Blairite factions want. I'm obviously too much of a nobody for my support of the Palestinians or other forbidden causes to attract the attentions of the Starmer-Evans witchfinders, but I've got friends who have been persecuted, suspended, expelled... I'll struggle with the motivation even to stick a poster up this time round (I live opposite a polling station, so get me on side and your name on a huge red board is the last thing voters see before they go into the booth). I'm not realistically going to to encourage anyone undecided to vote Labour, because I don't have a good reason to offer them beyond 'to keep the Tories out', and after the most demoralising and exhausting few years in memory I'm not going to give up hours of my time to trudge around in the rain getting the vote out. Everyone gets cross with Adam because he might not be arsed to vote for Starmer, but Adam is very much not his biggest problem, except as a barometer of his dire leadership. If you can't even get Adam to vote Labour, how are you going to persuade @BoldonLad? Let alone the Deliveroo rider whose first chance to vote in a GE is the next one, or the student with no prospect of a job who thinks they're all the same anyway and it's raining so we might as well just forget it and get pissed.

I note I got my “Sunday Name”?

I could easily be persuaded back to Labour, my vote is effectively wasted anyway, but, I do insist on voting. IMHO, if you don’t vote, you have no right to complain.

 

[Deleted member 49]

If you concede that 'respect the referendum result' was the closest it was feasible for Labour to get to 'keeping away' from Brexit at the time, this is more or less what Labour did in 2017, with a bit more vision and ambition. And it served them well. Starmer's strategy has been to distance himself from all of this and wrap himself in flags. I'll be amazed if that's good enough for anyone much, outside of PLP-media bubble.

I'll almost certainly vote Labour at the next GE - I'm in a key Labour-Tory marginal (we took it back convincingly in 2017 after Labour lost it to the Tories by 27 votes in 2015 - before that it was one of the three joint longest-held seats in the UK, electing a Labour MP since 1906), and my MP, whilst her politics are much more centrist or at least softer left than I would like, is a mostly well-liked local MP with feminist credentials who votes progressively and was not an overt wrecker during the Corbyn era. She's strongly pro-EU - defied Starmer over the trade deal vote and resigned as PPS. I'm what you might call a Weak/Eurosceptic Remain voter who was opposed to the so-called 'People's Vote' campaign and finds EU flag-shaggers only slightly less weird than Union-Jack shaggers, but she's been frank and consistent on the issue, and we had Green Party members and even a few Lexiteers join us cheerfully on the 2017 Labour doorstep to get a Labour MP elected.

Which brings me to one of the other problems with Starmer - who's going to do all of that stuff for a party or a leader so contemptuous and hostile to its own member/activist base? I've stayed in the party for the simple reason that it gets me a vote in stuff like NEC elections, and because dwindling membership and crumbling democracy is what the current leadership and Blairite factions want. I'm obviously too much of a nobody for my support of the Palestinians or other forbidden causes to attract the attentions of the Starmer-Evans witchfinders, but I've got friends who have been persecuted, suspended, expelled... I'll struggle with the motivation even to stick a poster up this time round (I live opposite a polling station, so get me on side and your name on a huge red board is the last thing voters see before they go into the booth). I'm not realistically going to to encourage anyone undecided to vote Labour, because I don't have a good reason to offer them beyond 'to keep the Tories out', and after the most demoralising and exhausting few years in memory I'm not going to give up hours of my time to trudge around in the rain getting the vote out. Everyone gets cross with Adam because he might not be arsed to vote for Starmer, but Adam is very much not his biggest problem, except as a barometer of his dire leadership. If you can't even get Adam to vote Labour, how are you going to persuade @BoldonLad? Let alone the Deliveroo rider whose first chance to vote in a GE is the next one, or the student with no prospect of a job who thinks they're all the same anyway and it's raining so we might as well just forget it and get pissed.

Your right there Claud,it's going to take a hell of a shift for me to vote for him.For my own selfish reasons I find him hard to tolerate over his treatment of Corbyn and the left of the party.I could feel almost guilty as a Labour supporter...except I asked my partner the other day and her words were "you asked me last time to vote for Corbyn,(which she did)don't ask me to vote for that fecking weasel" she's less forgiving of British politics than even me !
But more than that I really don't see any vision from him,I see more of the same.Is it really good enough to 'just not be the Tories' ?
The whole Blair should be knighted drives me fecking nuts !
I'm way past the Brexit argument,it was allways more important to me to have some hope in goverment...what a feck up that turned out to be !
I'll wait and see..I won't hold my breath though.

 

[winjim]

I'd vote for a dead badger if it helped get rid of the Tories.

 

[Deleted member 49]

I'd vote for a dead badger if it helped get rid of the Tories.

Even if it was a Tory in a Badger costume ?

 

[winjim]

Even if it was a Tory in a Badger costume ?

It's dead though.

 

[swansonj]

....Is it really good enough to 'just not be the Tories' ?...

Just at the moment, my answer is, yes it is. Our country hangs on a perilously thin thread between abandoning democracy for a version of fascism. Keeping Johnson (or more frighteningly, his more competent fellow travellers) out is, in my view, worth voting for Labour.

Or, more succinctly:

I'd vote for a dead badger if it helped get rid of the Tories.