American bombshell? Roe vs. Wade....

[mudsticks]

'Hosting'.

Yes.

Our bodies, are just an early form of B&B really only we don't get to decide if we're open for business, or mot .

No such thing as a 'no vacancies' sign on our wombs..

 

[FishFright]

'Christian theology ' imposes an external moral standard on killing, theft, adultery, greed ... that can be summed up in the phrase 'you shall love your neighbour as yourself'.

That has largely been rejected by modern society, replaced by following self, each person does what they consider right in their own eyes, a DIY morality.

Simultaneously there are constant complaints about abuse, misogyny, violence and rape in particular. These evils are, however, individuals exercising their personal autonomy with no regard for any notion of a common good. The good of the other.

Abortion is a specific example of this - a woman exercising a claimed personal autonomy (who grants this right?) at the expense of an 'other', namely the unborn child she is hosting.

As for the specific case where this comes about because of rape if Christian sex ethics were lived out there would be no rape.

The rejection of the 'external standard' comes at a price, because you have to allow the same freedom to everyone else. In a Darwinian world this will mean the strong dominate the weak.

So l say we need an external standard if there is to be any hope at least of reigning in our innate selfishness.

This external standard is appalling if you're not a white male with an imaginary friend.

 

[qigong chimp]

Abortion is a specific example of this - a woman exercising a claimed personal autonomy (who grants this right?) at the expense of an 'other', namely the unborn child she is hosting.

It's all gone a bit Ridley Scott.

 

[qigong chimp]

"Don't touch it! Don't touch it!"

 

[Unkraut]

Especially when it's (bible) been translated via various languages

That's a bit village atheist level!

If that standard is invented it is hardly external, is it?

You mean there can be no law of God if there is no God. Obviously! That would still mean there exists a religious and ethical text that has profoundly affected how we should treat each other individually and corporately. A framework handed down giving structure and stability. A reference point outside of ourselves. Obligations we would not meet if our behaviour is determined solely by makes us personally happy.

And who from the pope down, have demonstrated their ethical standards, by sheltering and/or being abusers.

Did you miss the qualification that the Christian ethic needs to be lived out. Failure to do this is hypocrisy, and yes, it is appalling.

But no, it's all about trying to control womens bodies, control their sexuality, to force them to have unwanted children (why?)

No it isn't, the issue is does a woman have the right to terminate the life of another human being, albeit not fully formed?

That is how it is framed amongst American evangelicals, and if you don't agree you need to argue why they are wrong.

If men don't want the responsibility of providing for a mother and child they should exercise self control. In my view men should carry the lion's share of responsibility on this issue, but feminists who insist it is solely for women to decide (so much for equality!) let them completely off the hook.

This external standard is appalling if you're not a white male with an imaginary friend.

What is appalling about having respect for your neighbour's life, family, possessions and dealing honestly with him?

Aren't you being sexist and racist commenting like that? Or is it a case of racism is wrong except when it isn't?

 

[Ian H]

'Hosting'.

Glass of wine and best frock.

 

[newfhouse]

Obligations we would not meet if our behaviour is determined solely by makes us personally happy.

Believe it or not, even us filthy atheists are capable of self control and self sacrifice.

 

[Ian H]

Just as a matter of interest, is there anything in the bible that unequivocally forbids abortion?

 

[qigong chimp]

Phoofff.. News just in, not before time, and frankly something of an epiphany.

Have just been beneficiary of a Divine revelation. Not one but all the bushes in my garden were aflame, I kid you not.

I saw that though the bushes were on fire they did not burn up. So I thought, “I will go over and see this strange sight—why the bushes do not burn up.”

When the Lord saw that I had gone over to look, God called to me from within the shrubbery, “Chimp! Chimp!”

And I said, “Here I am.”

“Do not come any closer,” God said. “Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground.” I said "But these are my new Birkenstocks Lord, orthopaedic, and not cheap so I'd rather keep them on if it's all the same to You". Then he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.” At this, I hid my face, because I was afraid to look at God.

The Lord said, “I have indeed seen the misery of my people in Egypt. I have heard them crying out because of their slave drivers, and I am concerned about their suffering. So I have come down to rescue them from the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of that land into a good and spacious land, a land flowing with milk and honey—the home of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites. And now the cry of the Israelites has reached me, and I have seen the way the Egyptians are oppressing them. So now, go. I am sending you to Pharaoh to bring my people the Israelites out of Egypt. Oh, and I'd rather all women everywhere had access to comprehensive healthcare, including on demand abortion.”

So it's official. It's OK Unkraut, straight from the main man.

 

[Ian H]

Phoofff.. News just in, not before time, and frankly something of an epiphany.

Have just been benefactor of a Divine revelation. Not one but all the bushes in my garden were aflame, I kid you not.

I saw that though the bushes were on fire they did not burn up. So I thought, “I will go over and see this strange sight—why the bushes do not burn up.”

When the Lord saw that I had gone over to look, God called to me from within the shrubbery, “Chimp! Chimp!”

And I said, “Here I am.”

“Do not come any closer,” God said. “Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground.” I said "But these are my new Birkenstocks Lord, orthopaedic, and not cheap so I'd rather keep them on if it's all the same to You". Then he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.” At this, I hid my face, because I was afraid to look at God.

The Lord said, “I have indeed seen the misery of my people in Egypt. I have heard them crying out because of their slave drivers, and I am concerned about their suffering. So I have come down to rescue them from the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of that land into a good and spacious land, a land flowing with milk and honey—the home of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites. And now the cry of the Israelites has reached me, and I have seen the way the Egyptians are oppressing them. So now, go. I am sending you to Pharaoh to bring my people the Israelites out of Egypt. Oh, and I'd rather all women everywhere had access to comprehensive healthcare, including on demand abortion.”

So it's official. It's OK Unkraut, straight from the main man.

But how do we know that's God speaking and not just you?

 

[Unkraut]

Just as a matter of interest, is there anything in the bible that unequivocally forbids abortion?

In so many words, no.

 

[qigong chimp]

But how do we know that's God speaking and not just you?

It was Him all right: the bushes were on fire but not consumed. Pay attention.

 

[newfhouse]

How long before we hear similar from a mainstream Tory politician here? In the current frenzy to attract the loony right, not long.


View: https://twitter.com/mollyjongfast/status/1550962959899295748?s=21&t=C1JPxpZ4cn1mc7THr1uVDQ

 

[theclaud]

How long before we hear similar from a mainstream Tory politician here? In the current frenzy to attract the loony right, not long.


View: https://twitter.com/mollyjongfast/status/1550962959899295748?s=21&t=C1JPxpZ4cn1mc7THr1uVDQ

These forced birthers can't tell jokes and don't even have their own routines. It's like watching Lozza Fox when he thinks he sounds like Leonard Cohen.

 

[Bazzer]

Did you miss the qualification that the Christian ethic needs to be lived out. Failure to do this is hypocrisy, and yes, it is appalling.

No I did not miss the qualification, but the hypocrisy of the Christian church is writ large throughout history.
Much loving of one's neighbour in:
The numerous conflicts which have been fought, and lives lost, because someone wasn't Christian.
Christians killing other Christians, because they were the wrong "brand".
The Protestant church in Germany finding a way to be both Christian and supporting Nazism.
The pope and Hitler signing a concordat.
The practice of Jehovah's Witnesses shunning those who leave the church.
Sexual abuse by priests and bishops, which if recent history is anything to go by, has probably been going on centuries.
The indefensible practice of priests, ministers and bishops involved in sexual assaults, being moved on to other parishes.
And don't get me started on the sometimes brutal behaviour of monks, nuns and spinster Catholics teachers, with regards to children in their "care". Or the appalling activities which have taken place in Ireland under the umbrella of the church.