Then 17 Year Old Male Gets Community Service for Raping a then 13 Year Old Girl

[glasgowcyclist]

It also struck me that the guidelines suggesting that under 25's be treated more leniently is a bit odd. They do take age into account in sentencing in England and Wales, and we do have Young Offenders prisons for under 21's, but there's quite a difference between a 17 year old and a 25 year old. Even between a 21 year old and a 25 year old really.

Lots of youth crime involves crimes committed against people of similar age or younger, so this ruling could be seen as giving very little deterrent not just for sexual assault but for other youth crime like muggings, making those most likely to be victims even more at risk.

If you are interested, the research on which these guidelines are based can be read here:
https://www.scottishsentencingcounc...-ssc-cognitive-maturity-literature-review.pdf

It’s a lengthy document at 122 pages and I’ll confess right now that I haven’t read beyond the first 20 pages.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Thanks, I'll have a look. I think it's widely accepted that our brains don't mature until 25 and I can well understand why this should inform legislation. It just seems in this case to be taking the idea of making some allowance for immaturity to an extreme in this case, leaving no room for personal responsibility.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Thanks, I'll have a look. I think it's widely accepted that our brains don't mature until 25 and I can well understand why this should inform legislation. It just seems in this case to be taking the idea of making some allowance for immaturity to an extreme in this case, leaving no room for personal responsibility.

I think that comes down to the particular judge in this case. As the guidelines make clear, the full range of sentencing options remain open in every case.

 

[Bromptonaut]

I think that comes down to the particular judge in this case. As the guidelines make clear, the full range of sentencing options remain open in every case.

The defendant pleaded not guilty but was convicted by a jury. Presumably that meant the victim had to give evidence. In England that would likely me treated as an aggravating factor, or at least an absence of mitigation, when it comes to sentence.

I'd still like to know exactly what happened and what the relationship was between him and the victim before and after the offence.

I believe that Scotland has a similar rule to England so that while any intercourse with a girl under 13 is Statutory Rape - ie she cannot consent.

After 13 she can consent but intercourse would be unlawful.

I think a lot of youngsters sail close to the wind in the 2-3 years up to age 16.

 

[BoldonLad]

More on this story, from the victims viewpoint. BBC Teenager living in fear after rapist Sean Hogg walked free https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-65298929

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...s-attacker-launches-bid-quash-conviction.html

 

[AuroraSaab]

He has nothing to lose by appealing. Gets legal aid presumably and perhaps feels emboldened by receiving such a soft sentence.

270 hours of unpaid work is around 7 weeks. It's less of a punishment than those unpaid placements they used to make you do when you were unemployed.

 

[qigong chimp]

I think it's widely accepted that our brains don't mature until 25..

Maybe "widely accepted", but true?

Ought we all to be on puberty blockers until our 25th birthday, that we might make mature-brained decisions about our gender identification?

 

[Bromptonaut]

Crown Office have appealed the sentence as unduly lenient:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...t-sentence-of-rapist-sean-hogg-to-be-appealed

Perhaps, either at the hearing or the decision, we'll finally get an account of the facts around this case.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Hogg acquitted on his own appeal against conviction:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...year-old-girl-in-scotland-acquitted-on-appeal

Hopefully, given the level of public interest etc, the Judge's decision/reasons will be published in due course.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Decision and reasons:

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/...or-opinions/2023hcjac37.pdf?sfvrsn=55b4a57f_1

Not read it yet.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Decision and reasons:

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/...or-opinions/2023hcjac37.pdf?sfvrsn=55b4a57f_1

Not read it yet.

I’ve had a read of it and I’m not surprised his appeal succeeded. There’s no way a jury, presented with a case based on the Moorov doctrine, can acquit for one complainer but convict for the other. Since each case is offered as corroboration of the other, either both are convictions or both are acquittals, there is no in-between.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Having read the judgment I too am not surprised the appeal succeeded. Even without Moorov and the Judge messing up the case was not particularly strong. As in the Welsh Footballer case a conviction where the complainant initially took no action and seemed to require some convincing that it really was rape is a sticky one upon to which to secure a conviction.

None of that justifies Hogg behaving like a shoot to his much younger girlfriend and it might have been possible to convict on some other charge, though I note some were laid.

A job for sex education in schools....

 

[Beebo]

A job for sex education in schools....

And sensible parenting from both sides.

We’ve all been young. None of us are naive as to what teens get up to.

But.
If a 17 year old son was dating a 13 year old I would be all over him.

Similarly I wouldn’t allow a 13 year old daughter to date a 17 year old boy.

There is simply too much of a power imbalance with that age gap.

My kids are currently 16 and 12. So these issues are very live to me.