Can the (Met) police ever change?

[icowden]

At this stage in the Kaba case I would be highly sceptical of anything said by the Met.

I think they have learned a few lessons. For a start they have shown the bodyworn camera footage to the family of Chris Kaba. This would seem to indicate that they are being transparent as to what happened and why.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-62983769

 

[newfhouse]

At this stage in the Kaba case I would be highly sceptical of anything said by the Met.

Just so. Whatever the source, the actual evidence needs examination in court. Clearly the simple story replayed by @icowden and others above wasn't enough to convince the IOPC and CPS. Let's wait and see.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Just so. Whatever the source, the actual evidence needs examination in court. Clearly the simple story replayed by @icowden and others above wasn't enough to convince the IOPC and CPS. Let's wait and see.

Agreed about courts, however i think your insertion that it wasn't enough to convince the IOPC and CPS is wrong, it sounds more like they bring it to court to stop the racism card from being played. That's what sounds like the tldr of the officers laying down their weapons because they don't feel protected. if everything the racism card is played they end up in court they might as well hand in their weapons because they would spend more time being suspended anyway. It's also telling that after seeing (source the bbc link above) the bodycam footage the family decided they take a step back from campaigning for ''justice''

 

[newfhouse]

i think your insertion that it wasn't enough to convince the IOPC and CPS is wrong

It is demonstrably right since they were not convinced and it has gone to trial. Why do you think this case is being prosecuted when so many others police initiated deaths are not? If the truth is as simple and clear cut as you seem to believe, the officer will be acquitted. Who gains from the trial? How is that “playing the race card”?

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

It is demonstrably right since they were not convinced and it has gone to trial. Why do you think this case is being prosecuted when so many others police initiated deaths are not? If the truth is as simple and clear cut as you seem to believe, the officer will be acquitted. Who gains from the trial? How is that “playing the race card”?

Well, let me give you an newsflash, we have the complicated system off the CPS IOPC etc. because they are not always right, it happens that when it gets to a judge the judge looks at all the evidence and says ''this should have never gone to trail'' their task is also simply to see if there is a case, and they do some checks to see if a case would make sense. And if there is so much media attention that's rather quickly.

Do you ever read? the BBC article i referred to which is linked above clearly says the family was claiming it was all do to racism. Probably because it's easier to blame others then look at themselves. And yes that sounds harsh but it is what is it is

 

[newfhouse]

we have the complicated system off the CPS IOPC etc. because they are not always right

No, they’re not. That’s why we have trials, and appeals. Nothing is perfect but what’s the alternative?

it happens that when it gets to a judge the judge looks at all the evidence and says ''this should have never gone to trail''

No, in cases serious enough for Crown Court it is the jury that weighs the evidence, not the judge.

Do you ever read?

Quite carefully, usually, even when it’s a struggle.

 

[multitool]

it sounds more like they bring it to court to stop the racism card from being played. That's what sounds like the tldr of the officers laying down their weapons because they don't feel protected. if everything the racism card is played they end up in court they might as well hand in their weapons because they would spend more time being suspended anyway.

The "racism card"

Sigh.

It's almost as if Dutchie has missed TWO inquiries openly describing the Met as 'racist'.

Maybe...just maybe...the Met should try being less racist.

These AFOs are throwing down their toys because they want all the kudos and fun of firearms, but without the responsibility. Given that racism absolutely permeates our society...and even more so the Met...it is not unreasonable to wonder whether there is a differential in their behaviour based on race.

Anyway, the CPS (which is NOT the police, and does not act in the interests of the Police) has decided already that there is a case to answer, based on the evidence they already have. The CPS DO NOT charge unless they think there is a reasonable chance of a conviction.

 

[Rusty Nails]

At this stage in the Kaba case I would be highly sceptical of anything said by the Met.

At this stage in the Kaba case it is best to be sceptical of anything said by anyone connected to it.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

The "racism card"

Sigh.

It's almost as if Dutchie has missed TWO inquiries openly describing the Met as 'racist'.

I haven't however accusations about racism do not mean every single incident is related to racism. if your selective reading has missed it, the victim was driving in a car flagged because it was involved in an incident with an fire arms, for which a other 6 are wanted. After he got the stop signal he didn't stop but raced off, they had to block him in, to get him to stop, and somewhere in that whole process he got shot.
And his family wants to make believe that he was an honest construction worker who was only shot by specially trained officers because he was black.
I have a hard time believing that, and considering his family's statement that they are stepping back their ''fight'' for ''justice'' after watching the body cam makes me suspect that the eventual court case will prove the officer did nothing wrong.

These AFOs are throwing down their toys because they want all the kudos and fun of firearms, but without the responsibility. Given that racism absolutely permeates our society...and even more so the Met...it is not unreasonable to wonder whether there is a differential in their behaviour based on race.

Any evidence of that claim? sure there is a report that shows there is racism within the (met)police, but that doesn't stipulate firearms officers specifically. What do you have against firearms officers anyway?

Anyway, the CPS (which is NOT the police, and does not act in the interests of the Police) has decided already that there is a case to answer, based on the evidence they already have. The CPS DO NOT charge unless they think there is a reasonable chance of a conviction.

I never claimed it was the police just to be clear, my point is and was even if the cps thinks there is a case to answer does not automatically mean they are correct. More then enough times they get refuted by the judge/courts.
Respect the court system and do try to add a conclusion to a body that is not made for that purpose. In an ideal world the Cps would bring almost all crimes to court, with the only criteria being if there is enough evidence. But it's not an ideal world so the cps has to juggle with who to charge and who not to charge

 

[newfhouse]

sure there is a report that shows there is racism within the police, but that doesn't stipulate firearms officers specifcally

The other team she singles out is the Met's Specialist Firearms unit, known as MO19, a team where "normal rules do not seem to apply."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65017475

Casey’s report specifically attacked the ‘deeply troubling, toxic culture’ in the Met’s specialist firearms command, known as MO19.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/key-findings-from-baroness-caseys-met-police-review/

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65017475

Says something about sexism not racism and is a small department within the met police

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/key-findings-from-baroness-caseys-met-police-review/

It doesn't say anything about racism only sexism. Also sneaky trick by posting the same report from two different news outlets which makes it looks like it's more than one report but it isn't

 

[newfhouse]

It doesn't say anything about racism only sexism

Do you ever read? Worth reading the whole thing, but pages 190 - 196 cover MO19. Yes, it mostly talks about misogyny but it also reports on racism.
https://www.met.police.uk/SysSiteAs...ch-2023/baroness-casey-review-march-2023a.pdf

Also sneaky trick by posting the same report from two different news outlets which makes it looks like it's more than one report but it isn't

I provided links to two stories about the Casey report, the one that was mentioned upthread.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Do you ever read? Worth reading the whole thing, but pages 190 - 196 cover MO19. Yes, it mostly talks about misogyny but it also reports on racism.
https://www.met.police.uk/SysSiteAs...ch-2023/baroness-casey-review-march-2023a.pdf

that was a lot of nit-picking for littarly 2 sentences that do not support the claim of widespread racism as the racism they found was mainly towards new recruits which they also claimis/was an issue as it is a certain ''club'' not something to approve but has not much to o with the topic at hand. It does not prove a racist bias against offenders/suspects.

I provided links to two stories about the Casey report, the one that was mentioned upthread.

That both say almost the same, so no added value in the second link.

 

[newfhouse]

that was a lot of nit-picking for littarly 2 sentences that do not support the claim of widespread racism as the racism they found was mainly towards new recruits which they also claimis/was an issue as it is a certain ''club'' not something to approve but has not much to o with the topic at hand. It does not prove a racist bias against offenders/suspects.

Do you think bigots keep their bigotry in silos?

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Do you think bigots keep their bigotry in silos?

It's not about what i think it about what you can show to back up your claims, so far even a 200 page report didn't manage that.