UK set to criminalise illicit refugee crossings....

Adam4868

Legendary Member
And of course the nice little earner of the 'buy to let' scheme.
People seeing there mortgages going up might do well to actually try and look what it costs to rent in this country !
 
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mudsticks

Legendary Member
People seeing there mortgages going up might do well to actually try and look what it costs to rent in this country !
It's generally cheaper to buy if you can .

But that often relies on 'The Bank of Mum and Dad' Which of course reinforces social inequality.

Renting in itself is no bad thing, it's got a lot going for it, so long as the rent is fair, and the property is maintained .

Sadly those last two are not a given.

My kids both rent, one even had to move to another country to afford a flat share ..🤔
 
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Cirrus

Active Member
Depends on what you mean
by 'the migration crisis'
If you're talking about people coming here by dangerous boat crossings instead of having safe routes, I'd say setting up safe routes would be a good step.

For those already here, I'd say putting in an effective system to process the massive backlog of claims, so legitimate claimants could get on with their lives, work, pay taxes, contribute to society, and so on .

The 'crisis' of our government weaponising the plight of these relatively few souls, who seek asylum here, as a distraction from their own mismanagement??

I don't really know, plenty of people seem ready to lap up that story of 'our own' homegrown homeless being homeless because of 'immigrants' don't they?

I'm not sure how you cure wilful ignorance, and a basic lack of understanding, awareness, and humanity.

I really wish I knew, the answer to that one 🤔

Re the crisis, I mean the whole enchilada, the crossings, the unfortunates drowning in the Med, the Greek waters and the Channel are (as you are aware) the product of the issues, be they climate/politically driven etc.

Setting up safe routes isn't going to solve it, building houses isn't going to solve it, we are heading into years of recession and more austerity, the UK won't be able to afford even the smaller numbers (of the whole) they receive.

But there are too many self-interested parties to actually make real changes at a global level, the US have their agenda, as do China, Russia, Europe etc. Without them pulling together it's just going to be more misery, conflict and hate for all concerned.
 

mudsticks

Legendary Member
Re the crisis, I mean the whole enchilada, the crossings, the unfortunates drowning in the Med, the Greek waters and the Channel are (as you are aware) the product of the issues, be they climate/politically driven etc.

Setting up safe routes isn't going to solve it, building houses isn't going to solve it, we are heading into years of recession and more austerity, the UK won't be able to afford even the smaller numbers (of the whole) they receive.

But there are too many self-interested parties to actually make real changes at a global level, the US have their agenda, as do China, Russia, Europe etc. Without them pulling together it's just going to be more misery, conflict and hate for all concerned.
Well for sure there's only so much we as a country can do to influence geopolitics, but we could show much better leadership on many issues.

Leaving the EU reduced our influence there, in addition to deliberately impoverishing ourselves financially politically and socially, to fulfil some ideaological fantasy.

I'd say that setting up safe routes, and building more and better housing could definitely help in many ways

Tory 'Austerity' is deliberately created impoverishment, the government could invest more, and properly tax massively exploitive industries such as the oil corps who are causing accelerated climate change, and thereby driving migration of impoverished people..

Immigration has been shown time and again to improve economic conditions, but even outside of that fact we could do more to help .

The hatred comes from all sorts of places, such as fear of the 'other' and is whipped up by talk of being 'invaded' .
 

Adam4868

Legendary Member
Re the crisis, I mean the whole enchilada, the crossings, the unfortunates drowning in the Med, the Greek waters and the Channel are (as you are aware) the product of the issues, be they climate/politically driven etc.

Setting up safe routes isn't going to solve it, building houses isn't going to solve it, we are heading into years of recession and more austerity, the UK won't be able to afford even the smaller numbers (of the whole) they receive.

But there are too many self-interested parties to actually make real changes at a global level, the US have their agenda, as do China, Russia, Europe etc. Without them pulling together it's just going to be more misery, conflict and hate for all concerned.
Austerity is a political choice....we've had it a few years ago with Osbourne ( did it ever end) didn't work then either with a estimated 300,000+ deaths

View: https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1591203593335738368?t=VdGw1BSlUfZwN9Zn2oOnwA&s=19
 
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Cirrus

Active Member
Austerity is a political choice....we've had it a few years ago with Osbourne ( did it ever end) didn't work then either with a estimated 300,000+ deaths

View: https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1591203593335738368?t=VdGw1BSlUfZwN9Zn2oOnwA&s=19


Would not particularly disagree , spending back then may have been better than cutting.

However I fear we are in a different place now, the combination of brexit, covid, incompetence and self interest seems to be helping flush our economy down the shitter

Edited to add covid
 
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mudsticks

Legendary Member
Austerity is a political choice....we've had it a few years ago with Osbourne ( did it ever end) didn't work then either with a estimated 300,000+ deaths

View: https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1591203593335738368?t=VdGw1BSlUfZwN9Zn2oOnwA&s=19

We could (and should) have been investing decades ago in sustainable technologies that would have moved us away from fossil fuel dependency years ago.

And in the social infrastructure, housing, health education etc that just makes a country more equitable and an all round nicer and safer place to live.

All that energy, skill, and know how that was lost to us, when the heavy industries were dismantled and outsourced.

Now there's impoverishment in those communities where there could have been prosperity and opportunities.
 

Adam4868

Legendary Member
We could (and should) have been investing decades ago in sustainable technologies that would have moved us away from fossil fuel dependency years ago.

And in the social infrastructure, housing, health education etc that just makes a country more equitable and an all round nicer and safer place to live.

All that energy, skill, and know how that was lost to us, when the heavy industries were dismantled and outsourced.

Now there's impoverishment in those communities where there could have been prosperity and opportunities.
Yea because selling of all that social housing was a good move....

View: https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1592164903544315905?t=didpSgjBrnbPICYuIJL8Mg&s=19
 

Adam4868

Legendary Member
Would not particularly disagree , spending back then may have been better than cutting.

However I fear we are in a different place now, the combination of brexit, covid, incompetence and self interest seems to be helping flush our economy down the shitter

Edited to add covid
Brexit,Covid,War....couldn't be anything to do with the goverments we've voted in and there lack of investment in general ? Public services taken over by the private sector to milk them dry.Im including new Labour in this ! They did very little to stop this decline.
The only question that still baffles me is why people vote them back in.
 

Cirrus

Active Member
Brexit,Covid,War....couldn't be anything to do with the goverments we've voted in and there lack of investment in general ? Public services taken over by the private sector to milk them dry.Im including new Labour in this ! They did very little to stop this decline.
The only question that still baffles me is why people vote them back in.

Did you miss the bit I wrote about incompetence and self interest?
 
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mudsticks

Legendary Member

Well it all makes total sense if you want to increase inequality, and make sure that the 'have nots' never will have much, nor get any 'funny' political ideas, such as a just social democracy .

That way you've got a constant pool of desperate people having to work multiple zero hours jobs to afford their rent, on their crappy accomodation.

Zero hours jobs, and insecure employment which of course enriches the already rich .

Meanwhile offshored 'news'paper owners stoke up hatred of the variously deprived, benefit claimants, homeless, single parents, asylum seekers, whoever, and make sure that the real robber villains, of extractive capitalism are never held to account.

It all makes total sense if you're a well off Tory.👍🏼

What doesn't make so much sense is how so many folks further down 'the ladder' fall for this scheme??
 
OP
OP
Fab Foodie

Fab Foodie

Guru
Re the crisis, I mean the whole enchilada, the crossings, the unfortunates drowning in the Med, the Greek waters and the Channel are (as you are aware) the product of the issues, be they climate/politically driven etc.

Setting up safe routes isn't going to solve it, building houses isn't going to solve it, we are heading into years of recession and more austerity, the UK won't be able to afford even the smaller numbers (of the whole) they receive.

But there are too many self-interested parties to actually make real changes at a global level, the US have their agenda, as do China, Russia, Europe etc. Without them pulling together it's just going to be more misery, conflict and hate for all concerned.

The root cause will not be dealt-with in the short to medium term. The current main driver of migration is regional and religious conflict, and this will be minor compared to the increasing impact of climate change rendering more and more land uninhabitable for the poorest. Add to the fact that the Internet has made the world a smaller place - people can see the richness of other lands and lives first hand. They can also see how climate change will impact their lives.

Climate change will create mass movements of nations, if we can't start to deal with the current trickle, I'd not want to witness what happens when the flood comes, and come it will.

We'll either have to learn to share what we have or sit-by while those born of less fortunate wombs perish in untold numbers.
 
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