Political language. What helps, what doesnt ??

To save unseemly squabbling, on an inappropriate thread.

What does , and what doesn't move political discussion along.??

How can we hold our politicians to account, express our political views in such a way that our message gets across.

But in a way that everyone gets a voice, no one has to feel (or be) unsafe.
 
First, I would deal with the press. Start reigning in the language used and the way they stir up hate, see the latest wheeze from the Daily Mail about GPs, supported by the Health Secretary. Two, scrap the FPTP system. A gov can have an 80 seat majority with just 43% of the vote? :headshake:Three, deal with the UK's seemingly never ending bullying culture. Four, civil education similar to that in Scotland. That does seem to work.

That's a fair place to start I think.
 
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mudsticks

mudsticks

Guru
First, I would deal with the press. Start reigning in the language used and the way they stir up hate, see the latest wheeze from the Daily Mail about GPs, supported by the Health Secretary. Two, scrap the FPTP system. A gov can have an 80 seat majority with just 43% of the vote? :headshake:Three, deal with the UK's seemingly never ending bullying culture. Four, civil education similar to that in Scotland. That does seem to work.

That's a fair place to start I think.

Don't disagree with much of that.

Fptp seems very undemocratic.

And yes 'civil' education a lot of people don't seem to have even a basic grasp of how our country is run .

So it's easy to pull the wool over people's eyes.

Someone on another thread said they really didn't care about government corruption..

I don't think that's an unusual stance.

Alongside "Politics is boring"

And "Politicians they're all the same "

That's pretty scarey, and shows how much needs to be done.
 

MrGrumpy

Member
First, I would deal with the press. Start reigning in the language used and the way they stir up hate, see the latest wheeze from the Daily Mail about GPs, supported by the Health Secretary. Two, scrap the FPTP system. A gov can have an 80 seat majority with just 43% of the vote? :headshake:Three, deal with the UK's seemingly never ending bullying culture. Four, civil education similar to that in Scotland. That does seem to work.

That's a fair place to start I think.

I don’t disagree with much of that however , education system up here is a poor second best now . Could be just my local experience but have to say it’s not a shining light of SNP governance !
 
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mudsticks

mudsticks

Guru
F**k me, that's a first!
You don't 'seem' to have a problem commenting on everything else!

Quite happy to have a one time residents view, looking in from the outside.

I like living here, but I don't like what 'our' government is doing, and has done to this country.

Breaking laws, engaging in corruption, lying to the electorate, and feathering their own nests.

I especially don't like what it has done to the most vulnerable in this country.

I'm allowed to say so, I'm allowed to criticise the government, and individuals in that government.

Happy to hear @cookiemonster s view on all that.

What's yours.

Without all the effing and jeffing ..

If at all possible .
 
F**k me, that's a first!
You don't 'seem' to have a problem commenting on everything else!

I'm always happy to learn new things (my science and teaching background) and be corrected by those in the know and it's not the first time. Maybe you should try it.

And I do still talk to people back in the UK and I read newspapers.
 
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Quite happy to have a one time residents view, looking in from the outside.

I like living here, but I don't like what 'our' government is doing, and has done to this country.

Breaking laws, engaging in corruption, lying to the electorate, and feathering their own nests.

I especially don't like what it has done to the most vulnerable in this country.

I'm allowed to say so, I'm allowed to criticise the government, and individuals in that government.

Happy to hear @cookiemonster s view on all that.

What's yours.

Without all the effing and jeffing ..

If at all possible .

As I mentioned, I always though right whingers were against the cancel culture.:scratch:
 
This is when the public should've went 'Woah!'

FB9rWtIWQAIgnKN.jpg
 

Fab Foodie

Über Member
I think the Brits are a pugilistic nation that's borne out by history. Confrontation is almost in our genes, hence we have adversarial politics.

Look at our parliament - look at the layout of the Commons, designed so that people couldn't stab each other across the aisle. Designed to face the enemy. Listen to them carrying-on during PMQ's.... Is this how other Parliaments behave?
We then have a predominantly Right Wing and sensationalist press that simply amplifies whatever it needs out of Westminster to sell its wares and Westminster delivers in spades. The press then stoke the fires a little more and their virtuous cycle continues

Then the system of election - fptp is a broken system, it does not deliver democracy or representation, it disenfranchises the people, it produces inequality in the parliament removing the checks and balances that would create better outcomes. Disenfranchisement creates divisions, frustration, and anger.
This leads to the situation we have today, 11 years of an increasingly incompetent but powerful government with an unrepresentative vote share being able to operate their chumocracy whilst taxing the poor, their vile immigration policies, reneging on International deals and law, re-arrangement of borders to increase their votes, a leveling-up agenda which is smoke-and-mirrors for vote buying, two-faced stance over the environment and climate-change erosion of two of the nations great institutes (BBC and NHS) yadd yadda yadda.
A party that is led by blatant liars and a PM whose language, thoughts and actions are not those of somebody who should be leading the country. Nobody is able to hold these people to account. People turn to 'Issue' based actions to have a voice and become deeply entrenched leading to greater division and anger. Brexit being a case in point
All of these things impact the way we behave and engage with each other. The language and behaviors in NACA reflect the divisions in society.

@Pale Rider accused me of hypocrisy over my opening stance in the following thread, an accusation I haven't denied, as a nobody on the Internet I could do better, I would like to do better ; https://naca.cyclechat.net/threads/tory-mp-stabbed.62/post-2940
PR thinks the rot starts at the bottom, I disagree, I believe it comes from the top, from those supposedly 'leading', those in the public view, those in which we put our (oft misplaced) trust, those that have a voice, those that are in positions of influence.

Politics is a nasty place at the moment. The UK is a nasty place at the moment. We are a very divided nation in so, so many ways.
If the language of politics and debate is to change we need leadership that works on bringing people closer together, that addresses the needs of people of all political persuasions. That leads by a better moral example, that heals divisions and lets people voices be heard and acted upon. Less division = Less anger = better language/interactions

Proportional representation is a must
Relocate the Government out of London (say Stoke on Trent) to a purpose-designed parliament building fit for purpose and the modern age. Design it for consensual debate rather than adversarial
Remove the 'Whip' function from parties
Improve the accountability of politicians, allow liars and blatant lying to be called-out in the house
Greater regional devolvement of powers
The press/news media need to prevent obfuscation by politicians along with greater promotion of fact-checking
Greater equality
Better Education
 
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glasgowcyclist

Active Member
In late 2016 we had one gutter element of the press describing three UK judges as "Enemies of the people" in a shocking headline. An attack on the judiciary's independence that was belatedly answered by the then Lord Chancellor, Liz Truss, with a weak response in which she failed to condemn it.

Three months later the author of that headline, James Slack, was appointed the PM's official spokesman.

The current UK PM expressing his view on Covid mitigation as "Let the bodies pile high". His lack of concern of the effects of Brexit summed up in his phrase, "fark business". His description of Muslim women who wear a burka as looking like letterboxes or bank robbers. And who can forget his picaninnies, water-melon smiles, or tank-toppped bum boys.

The Home Office tweeting the message which they later had to delete only for the Home Secretary to later tweet on her own account the same message. In it, reference was made to human rights lawyers as "activist lawyers ... delaying and disrupting returns". Although that tweet and an associated video advert were withdrawn after being found to breach civil service standards, Patel repeated the phrase in a tweet (which is still live). Days after her tweet, a man entered the office of immigration solicitor in London brandishing a large knife and threatening to kill him. He carried out a violent, racist attack on staff, injuring one of them before being overcome.

Patel did nothing to tone down her attacks, in fact she went further by later targeting 'do-gooders' and 'lefty lawyers' at the Tory Party Conference. PM Johnson got in on the act too, stating that the criminal justice system was “being hamstrung by lefty human rights lawyers”.

The Tory government's inhumane and divisive rhetoric is shaping the violent and intolerant behaviour we are seeing played out on our streets.

The Tories are acutely aware of the inflammatory and provocative nature of their words and policies, which they use to drive forward their populist form of government.

They will reap what they sow.
 

Fab Foodie

Über Member
In late 2016 we had one gutter element of the press describing three UK judges as "Enemies of the people" in a shocking headline. An attack on the judiciary's independence that was belatedly answered by the then Lord Chancellor, Liz Truss, with a weak response in which she failed to condemn it.

Three months later the author of that headline, James Slack, was appointed the PM's official spokesman.

The current UK PM expressing his view on Covid mitigation as "Let the bodies pile high". His lack of concern of the effects of Brexit summed up in his phrase, "fark business". His description of Muslim women who wear a burka as looking like letterboxes or bank robbers. And who can forget his picaninnies, water-melon smiles, or tank-toppped bum boys.

The Home Office tweeting the message which they later had to delete only for the Home Secretary to later tweet on her own account the same message. In it, reference was made to human rights lawyers as "activist lawyers ... delaying and disrupting returns". Although that tweet and an associated video advert were withdrawn after being found to breach civil service standards, Patel repeated the phrase in a tweet (which is still live). Days after her tweet, a man entered the office of immigration solicitor in London brandishing a large knife and threatening to kill him. He carried out a violent, racist attack on staff, injuring one of them before being overcome.

Patel did nothing to tone down her attacks, in fact she went further by later targeting 'do-gooders' and 'lefty lawyers' at the Tory Party Conference. PM Johnson got in on the act too, stating that the criminal justice system was “being hamstrung by lefty human rights lawyers”.

The Tory government's inhumane and divisive rhetoric is shaping the violent and intolerant behaviour we are seeing played out on our streets.

The Tories are acutely aware of the inflammatory and provocative nature of their words and policies, which they use to drive forward their populist form of government.

They will reap what they sow.
Spot-on.
 
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