North Shropshire

[stowie]

Given you don't go in for scare tactics, I can only assume you are simply mistaken in that view.

I'm still surprised you believe it.

Dominic Raab - co-authored a piece advocating the privatisation of the NHS.
Steve Baker - Eurosceptic hardliner (was once on the fringe), now fighting for our freedom from the tyranny of ....errr... masks. And formed a climate "sceptic" group.
Priti Patel - leader of the hang 'em high brigade (but without the intellectual ability to form an argument for the position). Voraciously anti-migrant. Pushing through legislation to curtail right to protest, second-tiering UK nationals with joint nationality etc. etc.
Rees-Mogg - can be argued to have dallianced with far right, retweeting AfD and defending doing so by saying that it was important to understand this strand of German thinking, speaker at far right dinner engagement, meeting with Steve Bannon. He might be viewed with some amusement about his old fashioned ways but he strikes me as flirting dangerously close to some really unpleasant ideas.

These are the prominant Tories which I would say are hard right. There are many more now who are highly deregulatory in pretty much any government safeguarding, sceptical about climate change (sounds much better than denier doesn't it??), economically somewhere way past Milton Friedman, Ayan Rand cultists, but socially utterly regressive to the point of absurdity (Chris Chope anyone?)

The problem is this crapola of thinking is now normalised.

It is not the old One Nation Conservatism. It isn't even Thatcherism. The Tories have gone way past that with this government into straight up populism. And the problem with populism is that governments frequently need to do unpopular but necessary things.

 

[Mr Celine]

I live in the constituency - yes, it was a protest vote, but to win the next election, the Conservatives must find a decent (local) candidate.

Who did you vote for?

 

[Deleted member 28]

Who did you vote for?

They will, it's an affluent area so they're not going to vote Labour in a General.

 

[Deleted member 28]

Work colleague lives in Harmer Hill, guess this is in the same constituency?

 

[PaulB]

Work colleague lives in Harmer Hill, guess this is in the same constituency?

Your first post on this thread was yesterday at 7am and here you are sixteen and a half hours later, still posting nonsense. That's one LOOOOONG day. How much did you get paid for it?

 

[Deleted member 28]

Your first post on this thread was yesterday at 7am and here you are sixteen and a half hours later, still posting nonsense. That's one LOOOOONG day. How much did you get paid for it?

It's a genuine question, also I get up early for work and go to bed late, can't see a problem myself?

Enough to live comfortably thank you. 👍

 

[Pale Rider]

Dominic Raab - co-authored a piece advocating the privatisation of the NHS.
Steve Baker - Eurosceptic hardliner (was once on the fringe), now fighting for our freedom from the tyranny of ....errr... masks. And formed a climate "sceptic" group.
Priti Patel - leader of the hang 'em high brigade (but without the intellectual ability to form an argument for the position). Voraciously anti-migrant. Pushing through legislation to curtail right to protest, second-tiering UK nationals with joint nationality etc. etc.
Rees-Mogg - can be argued to have dallianced with far right, retweeting AfD and defending doing so by saying that it was important to understand this strand of German thinking, speaker at far right dinner engagement, meeting with Steve Bannon. He might be viewed with some amusement about his old fashioned ways but he strikes me as flirting dangerously close to some really unpleasant ideas.

These are the prominant Tories which I would say are hard right. There are many more now who are highly deregulatory in pretty much any government safeguarding, sceptical about climate change (sounds much better than denier doesn't it??), economically somewhere way past Milton Friedman, Ayan Rand cultists, but socially utterly regressive to the point of absurdity (Chris Chope anyone?)

The problem is this crapola of thinking is now normalised.

It is not the old One Nation Conservatism. It isn't even Thatcherism. The Tories have gone way past that with this government into straight up populism. And the problem with populism is that governments frequently need to do unpopular but necessary things.

None of the above is hard right, although I can see it would look that way from those with an increasingly woke perspective.

 

[Hitchington]

None of the above is hard right, although I can see it would look that way from those with an increasingly woke perspective.

 

[Bromptonaut]

None of the above is hard right, although I can see it would look that way from those with an increasingly woke perspective.

In the context of the Tory party, as it's been in our lifetimes, those people are hard right; the Tory equivalent of Militant Tendency.

 

[swansonj]

None of the above is hard right, although I can see it would look that way from those with an increasingly woke perspective.

"Hard" is of course entirely subjective whether applied to left or right, it's all in the eye of the beholder. Just for fun, could you give us some examples of what would seem to you to be "hard" right views or policies?

 

[stowie]

None of the above is hard right, although I can see it would look that way from those with an increasingly woke perspective.

I define Hard Right on the Tory party as those with very strong views on economic deregulation whilst also being regressive on individual liberties and having generally highly socially conservative outlook which can include dallying with conspiracy theories around climate change and now COVID.

They are people whose views on social, individual and economic liberties are not congruent so it leads to a number of major inconsistencies.

For example, I would not class David Davis as hard right even though he has expressed support for capital punishment because his views on individual liberties (for example opposing the counter-terrorism bill, ID cards etc).

This is all different to the far-right, although the two are sometimes closer than those on the hard-right would care to admit. For instance, I consider that Rees-Mogg sails dangerously close to the far-right and holds some deeply unpleasant views veiled in the jolly "18th C man" schtick.

In any case, it is a way of describing part of the Tory party (such as hard left describes part of the Labour Party membership) that had been very marginalised until May's coalition and Brexit. Boris has just supercharged their influence by courting them for his own political gain. Kind of ironic since Johnson projected an image of being incredibly socially liberal on topics such as immigration whilst London mayor but suddenly having an anti-Demascene conversion in his rise to PM. Which showed to me he has no moral compass at all, and lied to Londoners when Mayor on his core beliefs (of which he has only one - a massively misplaced self-belief).

These people have very different views to the centre conservatives, or "wets" as Thatcher called them, or "one-nation conservative" as they might be more kindly called. Those in that tradition were purged from the Tory party by Johnson before the 2019 election, ironically leaving him at the mercy of the hard right views on COVID at the last commons vote.

 

[BoldonLad]

I define Hard Right on the Tory party as those with very strong views on economic deregulation whilst also being regressive on individual liberties and having generally highly socially conservative outlook which can include dallying with conspiracy theories around climate change and now COVID.

They are people whose views on social, individual and economic liberties are not congruent so it leads to a number of major inconsistencies.

For example, I would not class David Davis as hard right even though he has expressed support for capital punishment because his views on individual liberties (for example opposing the counter-terrorism bill, ID cards etc).

This is all different to the far-right, although the two are sometimes closer than those on the hard-right would care to admit. For instance, I consider that Rees-Mogg sails dangerously close to the far-right and holds some deeply unpleasant views veiled in the jolly "18th C man" schtick.

In any case, it is a way of describing part of the Tory party (such as hard left describes part of the Labour Party membership) that had been very marginalised until May's coalition and Brexit. Boris has just supercharged their influence by courting them for his own political gain. Kind of ironic since Johnson projected an image of being incredibly socially liberal on topics such as immigration whilst London mayor but suddenly having an anti-Demascene conversion in his rise to PM. Which showed to me he has no moral compass at all, and lied to Londoners when Mayor on his core beliefs (of which he has only one - a massively misplaced self-belief).

These people have very different views to the centre conservatives, or "wets" as Thatcher called them, or "one-nation conservative" as they might be more kindly called. Those in that tradition were purged from the Tory party by Johnson before the 2019 election, ironically leaving him at the mercy of the hard right views on COVID at the last commons vote.

May I ask, do your descriptions apply to "normal" everyday people, or, only to Politicians?

I ask, because, most people I know are much more complex than that, with views on individual topics some of which would make them "hard right" (by your definitions), whilst at the same time being not even right of centre on other topics.

Maybe, I just have a bunch of weird relatives/friends/acquaintences?

 

[winjim]

May I ask, do your descriptions apply to "normal" everyday people, or, only to Politicians?

I ask, because, most people I know are much more complex than that, with views on individual topics some of which would make them "hard right" (by your definitions), whilst at the same time being not even right of centre on other topics.

Maybe, I just have a bunch of weird relatives/friends/acquaintences?

Come on...

https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/...-charged-as-formerly-seen-on-cc.127/post-9942

 

[stowie]

May I ask, do your descriptions apply to "normal" everyday people, or, only to Politicians?

I ask, because, most people I know are much more complex than that, with views on individual topics some of which would make them "hard right" (by your definitions), whilst at the same time being not even right of centre on other topics.

Maybe, I just have a bunch of weird relatives/friends/acquaintences?

Just a way of defining the make up of political parties, and by necessity a generalisation, so not a complete description.

A proportion of voters could be viewed as being socially highly conservative but very "left" when it comes to things like the NHS or economy. For example, it is not uncommon to have people who are highly conservative on matters such as same sex marriage or immigration but amenable to nationalisation and very against NHS privatisation. Us voters have to weigh up where we align with politicians and where we diverge and vote for the party / people who we think best represents us.

It is also shown in reverse at times with the "hard-left" of the Labour party where their economic thoughts can align with the same people but socially they are a million miles away from each other.

 

[BoldonLad]

Come on...

https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/...-charged-as-formerly-seen-on-cc.127/post-9942

??