Maureen Lipman: Cancel culture could wipe out comedy

Adam4868

Senior Member
Obviously, Black with Yellow.💪
Of course goes without saying,although I prefer you now you've shaved your tash off ^_^
506
 

Rusty Nails

Oh yes he is!
I must admit to never hearing the phrase "global majority heritage" before this thread. AIUI it's meant to be an improvement upon the acronyms BAME and BIPOC in that it removes the potentially dismissive description of people as minorities, but at the moment I don't see how it is an improvement or more appropriate.

I usually hesitate to get involved in discussions on racism (or sexism) because I am aware that my comments can be dismissed as coming from my position as one of the privileged groups, but it seems to me as if it is part of the trend to need a simple word or phrase to describe what is quite a complicated concept and can cause more problems than it solves. If it is a majority then, by definition, the opposite, "white European heritage" is now a minority, and it more clearly more divisively places people into one of two categories, robbing or watering down many of them of their individuality of heritage.

I suppose that in time I will get used to this phrase, just as I have changed my phraseology over the years to move with the current, more enlightened conventions, and to avoid the impression of offending people, but as yet it seems just a piece of window dressing that does little or nothing to really progress the matter of racist attitudes or behaviours.

In a similar vein, I understand the comments of the first black mayor of Bristol when talking about the not guilty verdict on the Colston statue four "More power to them as individuals,” Rees said. “I hope they have good lives and all the rest of it, but what happened to them in court really has very little to do with what we are trying to get done in the city. My business in Bristol is about holding the city together and tackling racism. Whatever happened to the individuals who pulled the statue down has very little to do with the drive to tackle race and class inequality in the city.
 

theclaud

Active Member
I must admit to never hearing the phrase "global majority heritage" before this thread. AIUI it's meant to be an improvement upon the acronyms BAME and BIPOC in that it removes the potentially dismissive description of people as minorities, but at the moment I don't see how it is an improvement or more appropriate.

I usually hesitate to get involved in discussions on racism (or sexism) because I am aware that my comments can be dismissed as coming from my position as one of the privileged groups, but it seems to me as if it is part of the trend to need a simple word or phrase to describe what is quite a complicated concept and can cause more problems than it solves. If it is a majority then, by definition, the opposite, "white European heritage" is now a minority, and it more clearly more divisively places people into one of two categories, robbing or watering down many of them of their individuality of heritage.

I suppose that in time I will get used to this phrase, just as I have changed my phraseology over the years to move with the current, more enlightened conventions, and to avoid the impression of offending people, but as yet it seems just a piece of window dressing that does little or nothing to really progress the matter of racist attitudes or behaviours.

In a similar vein, I understand the comments of the first black mayor of Bristol when talking about the not guilty verdict on the Colston statue four "More power to them as individuals,” Rees said. “I hope they have good lives and all the rest of it, but what happened to them in court really has very little to do with what we are trying to get done in the city. My business in Bristol is about holding the city together and tackling racism. Whatever happened to the individuals who pulled the statue down has very little to do with the drive to tackle race and class inequality in the city.
Arguably its value is in its unfamiliarity or unexpectedness - it jars, I would suggest, because as white people we are not accustomed to thinking of ourselves as a minority, as the phrase obliges us to do in order to make sense of it. 'Non-white' describes, empirically, the same thing (I think) but frames it as if white were the norm, and everything else the deviation.
 

Rusty Nails

Oh yes he is!
Arguably its value is in its unfamiliarity or unexpectedness - it jars, I would suggest, because as white people we are not accustomed to thinking of ourselves as a minority, as the phrase obliges us to do in order to make sense of it. 'Non-white' describes, empirically, the same thing (I think) but frames it as if white were the norm, and everything else the deviation.
I agree about the inappropriateness of the 'non-white' categorisation, and I think that anyone who does not see and understand that 'white' people are well in the minority in the world must be very blinkered indeed, but I believe that this search for a catch-all phrase is simplistic window-dressing for a very complex issue, probably driven by the apparent need for catchy phrases in today's age of internet and social media communications where nuanced arguments are relatively rare and involve too much concentration.
 

theclaud

Active Member
I agree about the inappropriateness of the 'non-white' categorisation, and I think that anyone who does not see and understand that 'white' people are well in the minority in the world must be very blinkered indeed, but I believe that this search for a catch-all phrase is simplistic window-dressing for a very complex issue, probably driven by the apparent need for catchy phrases in today's age of internet and social media communications where nuanced arguments are relatively rare and involve too much concentration.
Was anyone proposing it as a catch-all? I'd argue that it was used in a particular context, with a particular purpose, and/or to particular effect. The purpose or effect could be pleasurable (irritating Shep), rhetorical (using words to make people, even momentarily, see something differently), political (insisting on the primacy of a perspective that has history been subordinate), and so on...
 

mudsticks

Über Member
Yeah Shep should stop walking on eggshells.

I know right, poor shep,
And all the other try hards..

Doing their utmost to moderate their language, so as everyone feels comfortable and included.

And all us Vampire Castlers can do, is just pour scorn on their valiant efforts, pretty much cancelling their sorry arrisses..

:rolleyes:
 

mudsticks

Über Member
I agree about the inappropriateness of the 'non-white' categorisation, and I think that anyone who does not see and understand that 'white' people are well in the minority in the world must be very blinkered indeed, but I believe that this search for a catch-all phrase is simplistic window-dressing for a very complex issue, probably driven by the apparent need for catchy phrases in today's age of internet and social media communications where nuanced arguments are relatively rare and involve too much concentration.
In the minority, numberswise yes

But still holding disproportionate power and material wealth..

That's kind of the point really , what drives that power imbalance?

Part of what drives it is racism, colonialism, historic and present day oppression based on skin colour, ethnicity, and geography.

And yes, of course, there are all the other intersectionalities in the mix there too ..

It's almost as if life's a bit more complicated than some would like to see it.
 

Rusty Nails

Oh yes he is!
Was anyone proposing it as a catch-all? I'd argue that it was used in a particular context, with a particular purpose, and/or to particular effect. The purpose or effect could be pleasurable (irritating Shep), rhetorical (using words to make people, even momentarily, see something differently), political (insisting on the primacy of a perspective that has history been subordinate), and so on...
I am not talking about its use in a post in this thread, but about the quick research into a term I had not seen before, but which is clearly gaining ground. Of course it is catch-all, in that it is specifically designed to include all those who are the non-white majority, and emphasise that they are the majority.

I know this is arguing about semantics, but clearly semantics are seen by many as extremely important when discussing attitudes to ethnicity and racism.

I can see why the term has been coined, but I question whether it moves the issue forward.

It's almost as if life's a bit more complicated than some would like to see it.

It is, both for people who may be consciously/subconsciously racist or actively anti-racist, and I believe this phrase tries too hard to simplify it, without actually addressing any issues in any new or substantive way, or brings resolution any nearer. Movement is not the same as progress.
 

farfromtheland

Regular AND Goofy
... We are a product of our environment and through some critical thinking and self examination we may come to realise what we hold as the truth is in fact in conflict with wider society...
I am not a person of colour and therefore no expert on racism.

I am a person of mostly working class urban heritage. I grew up in the late 60s and the 70s when Black Power and Women's Lib and and every-day life revolution were in the air.

I read a bit of Angela Davies and got an idea that social class was the root of exploitation. I feel and always have that I've got more in common with most Black people than most middle class people, partly because i grew up that way and partly, to be frank, because of words like 'intersectionality' - or rather feeling like a fool when I first asked what it meant.

It's not so much any word, important as they are, it's that social relationships go even deeper than language.
 

matticus

Active Member
I am a person of mostly working class urban heritage. I grew up in the late 60s and the 70s when Black Power and Women's Lib and and every-day life revolution were in the air.

I read a bit of Angela Davies and got an idea that social class was the root of exploitation. I feel and always have that I've got more in common with most Black people than most middle class people,
That's an interesting post!

SImilarly, I feel closer to - and have a lot more in common with - black/asian friends from school and university, than I do with white folks I meet from vastly different backgrounds to me.
Where I live I meet/know more east-europeans than BAME peeps, so that perhaps is another different perspective.
 

mudsticks

Über Member
A 'derailment' in the Wolverhampton area meant an 8hr trip from Glasgow to Devon last November, turned into an 11hr test of patience.

"How apt" I thought to myself :rolleyes:
 
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