Incredibly brave young women in Iran...

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I understand what you say, and who knows where a debate about the problems of a modern country run as a religious theocracy will go?
That is quite easy to see, just look at Afghanistan about 2 years ago and Afghanistan now...
But other than you're killed of you don't follow the exact rules, seen as less then a human if you are happened to be born as a women is there not much to tell.
I think all those women resisting the regime in various ways are very very brave, but i don't think it will change very much as the silent majority doesn't seem to support change. I mean you see women protesting at times, not men or boys, so it won't change much because the regime will just resort to what oppresive regimes do best use a lot of violence to suppress opposition. Only when you get the silent majority to participate there is a chance on change.
 

Curb

New Member
Shaparak's book, A Beginner's Guide to Acting English, has the story of how her dad had to make himself scarce from his office in Tehran as a mob whipped by the mullahs was baying for his blood.

If you get a chance, Marjane Satrapi's Persepolis is worth a read too.

I'll finish by leaving here a link to Shervin Hajiaghapour's Baraye (For)


View: https://youtu.be/XrvpRb2jY1M


Thank you for the link, it had me in tears.

Thank you Mudsticks for the thread.
 

AuroraSaab

Legendary Member
There is support from men, certainly younger men, in Iran at the moment. If I can find the video links I'll post them.

It is an heartbreaking situation at the moment but these brave young women are also absolutely inspirational.

I had thought about starting a thread on Iran, and indeed on other topics, but the reality of this forum is that most threads eventually descend into snarkiness, foul language, or personal abuse and I'm not up for that at the moment.
 
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mudsticks

mudsticks

Squire
A debate requires some degree of disagreement. Is there anyone here that doesn’t find the murder of these brave women abhorrent, or that supports the oppressive regime?

It doesn't have to be a 'debate' about whether or not oppression is right or wrong.
But that oppression can still be highlighted, and a discussion about how best to help resist it can be had.

I don't pretend to know the 'best' way to help, but ignoring problems because they seem 'too hard' to tackle is no solution.

'Looking away' or not talking about it, because it's too awful to contemplate, is playing into the hands of this violently oppressive regime.

It's easy, from within our (relatively) liberal society in the Western world, to forget how different cultural norms are in most of the rest of the world. Or even to forget how recently it was that women's lives here were very different - my grandmother was born before women were allowed to vote, and my parents were born before equal suffrage (and those are just the headline inequalities). It's far too soon to take any of this for granted.
Agree and our hard won rights are easily eroded if we don't pay attention.

As a woman even a privileged woman living in this relatively enlightened country the forces of patriachy that seek to control, and to silence women, are still very evident.

Look at the 'debate' over whether women should have reproductive rights or bodily autonomy.
The 'everyday' violence that is done to women, the causes of which are not properly tackled and the 'she was asking for it' excusing that is done.

The push back against feminism .

The 'everyday sexism' in our media.
The normalising of violent pornography.
The gender pay gap, and all the other political, economic and social inequality that's shrugged off as 'just how it is'


Of course the institutionalised oppression of women in places like Iran Afghanistan and elsewhere, are far worse, no one would deny that.

But they're all symptomatic of the same very poor attitude towards women.
Vigilance is required everywhere it would seem.

I understand what you say, and who knows where a debate about the problems of a modern country run as a religious theocracy will go?

Religion - being used as a tool of oppression and control is a fairly regular theme on here .
We've survived discussing it before - just about :okay:

There is support from men, certainly younger men, in Iran at the moment. If I can find the video links I'll post them.

It is an heartbreaking situation at the moment but these brave young women are also absolutely inspirational.

I had thought about starting a thread on Iran, and indeed on other topics, but the reality of this forum is that most threads eventually descend into snarkiness, foul language, or personal abuse and I'm not up for that at the moment.
I was in two minds about starting it myself, for some of those reasons..

But if it increases engagement and gives a couple of ideas about how to help.
Then perhaps it's not a complete waste of time.

Anyone wanting to start abusing others over this issue will just be massively telling on themselves, and can safely be ignored I reckon .
 
It doesn't have to be a 'debate' about whether or not oppression is right or wrong.

There is no debate, and that was my point. I was careful to say why I believe little has been said here about the Iranian situation.

By all means, let’s also have threads on the plight of the Kurds, the Rohingya genocide, and the oppression of the Uighurs too. I predict those topics will attract little traffic here despite their contribution to the sum of human misery.

I have not discouraged such posts but simply responded to the thread’s opening question.
And yet they barely warrant a mention on these boards.??
 
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mudsticks

mudsticks

Squire
There is no debate, and that was my point. I was careful to say why I believe little has been said here about the Iranian situation.

By all means, let’s also have threads on the plight of the Kurds, the Rohingya genocide, and the oppression of the Uighurs too. I predict those topics will attract little traffic here despite their contribution to the sum of human misery.

I have not discouraged such posts but simply responded to the thread’s opening question.
I get the thrust of what you're saying, but theres often complaint here that it's just the same old voices, and that no one else is interested in joining in.

Some of that will be to do with being put off by the presence of a few unpleasant sorts who only 'engage' by being being deliberately offensive, and or dismissive.

But it's interesting that this thread has already drawn in a couple of others from whom we don't often hear.

Plus you never really know who is reading along, nor the effects of a discussion, however obscure the venue.

Or who gets a bit more informed, and inspired to take action, whether individually or collectively.

I know I have been already, on both fronts.
 

icowden

Legendary Member
As a woman even a privileged woman living in this relatively enlightened country the forces of patriachy that seek to control, and to silence women, are still very evident.
I suppose it's because the concept that women should be equal is still relatively new even in the West.

My daughters study history at school and one of the topics is often the suffrage movement. Youngest daughter had to read a slightly fictionalised biography of Princess Sophia Duleep Singh, and one of the things that really surprised her, or helped her understand just how recent a lot of this "history" is, was that my Grandma (who only passed away this year at 103) was 6 years old when women over 21 were allowed the vote following the death of Emmeline Pankhurst, and that the concept of women voting at all was only allowed 4 years before my Grandma's birth.

My Gran was a very tangible connection to a lot of curriculum history!
 
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mudsticks

mudsticks

Squire
I suppose it's because the concept that women should be equal is still relatively new even in the West.

My daughters study history at school and one of the topics is often the suffrage movement. Youngest daughter had to read a slightly fictionalised biography of Princess Sophia Duleep Singh, and one of the things that really surprised her, or helped her understand just how recent a lot of this "history" is, was that my Grandma (who only passed away this year at 103) was 6 years old when women over 21 were allowed the vote following the death of Emmeline Pankhurst, and that the concept or women voting at all was only allowed 4 years before my Grandma's birth.
Yup it's all very recent history.

I'm sure we've all got stories of the entrenched sexism, that our mothers and grandmothers, and that we ourselves have had to put up with (or resist)

And there's still plenty of folks even here in the west that don't really believe in, or want to see practiced that true equality..

You only have to even very mildy put your head above the parapet on mainstream internet for a whole torrent of misogyny to spew forth .

We still daily swim against a tide of both conscious , and unconscious bias .
Even on these 'hallowed' boards.

Some folks seem to think that 'more equality' for women, means less equality for men.

Which is clearly nonsense.
But the world is full of nonsense right??
 

C R

Über Member
Thank you to everyone helping to keep these events in the public eye.


View: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-63204259
 
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mudsticks

mudsticks

Squire
I agree. I hope my prediction is wrong.

Well whether your prediction of how it goes on here is correct or not, a bit more awareness is never a bad thing.

It does no harm that I can see.

Keep sharing the info, keep it in the media.

If The Iranian gov want to keep this out of the news, then we can at least do our best to keep it current.
 
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If The Iranian gov want to keep this out of the news, then we can at least do our best to keep it current.
To be honest, i really don't think they care, they explain it in a other way anyway. Would be interesting to find a way to reach the silent majority.(suppressing a small group is an issue, suppressing a large part of the population is a problem. )
 
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mudsticks

mudsticks

Squire
To be honest, i really don't think they care, they explain it in a other way anyway. Would be interesting to find a way to reach the silent majority.(suppressing a small group is an issue, suppressing a large part of the population is a problem. )

If they really 'don't care' at all, then they wouldn't be trying to suppress footage getting out .

The more that footage and reporting gets out the harder it is to try to make out that all these young people being killed are as a result of mysterious 'falls from high buildings'.

The less the regime is believed, and the more their awful wrongdoings are exposed, the greater the likelihood of these protests continuing, momentum building and thereby gaining even more widespread support.

These protests may not yet be successful in their aims, in their fight for freedom.
The powers that be may be successful in their crackdown.
We don't yet know.

But our continued support by talking about it, keeping it in the news, and sharing this information widely, is one tiny bit of help we can give to these brave souls in their time of dire need.

In fact those on the ground repeatedly ask us to do that.

So why wouldn't we??
 

ebikeerwidnes

Well-Known Member
Thanks to @mudsticks for starting the thread

This does need to be kept in the news - I may even send an email to my MP asking what the UK government is doing about it
(should I change my username to "Mrs Trellis")

He won;t do much but if a lot of people say something to them then it keeps it in their mind

In case anyone thinks - or hears from someone who thinks - that the advances made in these area in the UK and now fixed in stone
we only need to look at the USA where some states seem to be looking at Iran and thinking "that seems like a good way to rule a country"

so we do need to keep things moving forward - nothing can be taken for granted
 
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