Apparently, this 'women' thing has gone too far...

[Pale Rider]

I was asking the, to me, rather obvious question, if porn influences behavior and/or attitudes, why doesn’t other forms of fantasy?

You are, of course. spot on.

Dismissing the likes of violent video games and films contributing to real world violence as 'tabloid fantasy' is dumb, and flies in the face of the evidence, such as it is.

I mentioned the murderer who wanted to be known as a video game character, and there have been several cases of violence in which the perpetrator is said to be obsessed with violent films and video.

There will always be a cause and effect argument, and as with all things 'of the mind' no nailed on answer.

But it's not possible to say with any certainty violent video games and films have no impact on the behaviour of the user.

 

[mudsticks]

Everyone is different. I used to read voraciously as a very young kid, everything from the Beano, The Eagle, Treasure Island, Zane Grey and Charles Dickens, but I can't remember getting any inspiration from the characters or thinking they were remotely like me, except in play acting games such as cowboys & indians, because I knew it was not real life. It was fantasy and escapism.
I fully realise that in the past, fictional heroes were almost always men, except in those middle class books about boarding schools or horses and historical/regency novels, so there was less opportunity for role models for girls.
I have always assumed you are a real person, not a fictional character, so young girls taking inspiration from your real life achievements, or the achievements of someone famous like Helen Sharman or Greta Thunberg, is much more likely than being inspired by Wonder Woman or DI Jane Tennison.

To an extent I agree, that wonder woman bikini business looked a bit impractical to be honest.

But at the same time, people hearing about what I, or anyone else has done, are mostly only listening to stories, maybe seeing some pictures.

We don't actually see it happen.
The 'magic' of stories mostly works on our imaginations.

For instance I was an avid devourer of Dervla Murphy books .

And although I cant claim to have undertaken anything like such extraordinary journeys, reading her stories, probably left me thinking

"Well yes, why shouldn't I do something similar?"

Same with many other stories about women achieving, and going outside what was seen as the social norm for females.

The internet has really accelerated all that, there's all kinds of women's adventure groups online , where women encourage each other with their tales of derring done..

Hurrah, for that !!

 

[mudsticks]

It probably does but the main difference is that on the whole porn doesn't seem to be presented as a fantasy.

Plus young people at least don't have any 'everyday normality' yardstick to measure that fantasy against , do they.??

Cue some kind of fnarr, reference around measuring, and yardsticks..

 

[Xipe Totec]

I bow to your superior porn knowledge, but….

Lots of advertising is not presented as fantasy either. Indeed product placement type advertising often strives not to be fantasy.

I have certainly seen my fair share of porn & other erotica in my lifetime, enough to be aware that a lot of it (probably most of what you'd see on 'mainstream' outlets) just depicts graphic, often ugly & unpleasant sex acts with no context at all.

Not sure if I'd conflate advertising & porn as they serve different purposes & are expressly designed to push different buttons, so to speak.

 

[Fab Foodie]

It probably does but the main difference is that on the whole porn doesn't seem to be presented as a fantasy.

It’s fantasy to some if us…

 

[Xipe Totec]

Plus young people at least don't have any 'everyday normality' yardstick to measure that fantasy against , do they.??

Cue some kind of fnarr, reference around measuring, and yardsticks..

Exactly that. The 'everyday normality' bit, not so much the yardsticks. Fnaar.

 

[BoldonLad]

It’s fantasy to some if us…

Fantasy to most, I would guess, if they were being honest. But, accurate measurements were never an area of male expertise, in my experience

 

[Rusty Nails]

Anyone care to back my campaign to recast Wonder Woman as Wonder Man?

Well I'm not going to recast you as Clark Kent..................possibly Lois Lane though

 

[mudsticks]

I didn’t say it was a good thing.

I was asking the, to me, rather obvious question, if porn influences behavior and/or attitudes, why doesn’t other forms of fantasy?

Like @Ian H I am no expert, but, it always seemed to me that even fantasy must influence behavior to a degree, after all,isn’t that what advertising does? I think we can assume that, in general, advertising works, otherwise, those wicked capitalists would not spend so much on it.

I didn't say that you said it was a good thing did I.??

I agree though , influencing our 'fantasy' imaginations must in some way shape our behaviours, to a greater or lesser degree.

In order to manifest a happening or situation you first have to envisage it, ie 'fantasise' or some parts of it, at least.

For instance if I want to go on a trip of a certain number of days or weeks duration, I have to imagine how that will fit around the rest of my life, book tickets, prepare my kit etc etc.

Most of us can't just wander out of our front doors and see where we end up without some degree of forward 'imagining' or fantasising


.

 

[icowden]

Plus young people at least don't have any 'everyday normality' yardstick to measure that fantasy against , do they.??

I think that you have hit the nail on the head. Those of us older than 30 grew up knowing that ladies had rude bits, and if we were lucky we had seen some on TV, or in a magazine concealed in a hedge. Most of us discovered *how* to do it once we had a willing girl friend and really both of you were learning as you went along.

Now I believe we have instructional videos demonstrating some very negative ways to "do it". Superheroes you can discuss with your mum and dad. That tends not to be true of hiding the sausage.

 

[mudsticks]

I think that you have hit the nail on the head. Those of us older than 30 grew up knowing that ladies had rude bits, and if we were lucky we had seen some on TV, or in a magazine concealed in a hedge. Most of us discovered *how* to do it once we had a willing girl friend and really both of you were learning as you went along.

Now I believe we have instructional videos demonstrating some very negative ways to "do it". Superheroes you can discuss with your mum and dad. That tends not to be true of hiding the sausage.

Whaddya mean

'Rude bits'??


It would be fair to say, that our lady parts have indulged in far less offensive behaviours over the years than those sported by the membership of the male of the species..

Rude indeed

But anyways joking aside, yes I agree re negative 'instructional' videos..
Pretty grim.


Thankfully , many (but not all) of the youth, and some of the elders are much, much better at talking about these negative influences, and they're aware of the false narratives, the unrealistic expectations, toxic attitudes, I think there's some hope there..

But at the same time , those conversations aren't going on everywhere

We need to stay aware..

 

[Deleted member 28]

Anyone care to back my campaign to recast Wonder Woman as Wonder Man?

No, she was fit!

 

[Mr Celine]

The idea of James Bond as a role model for boys is... problematic.

It's where I went wrong. James Bond was Sean Connery when I was growing up. I copied him by going bald and speaking with a Scottish accent.

 

[mudsticks]

It's where I went wrong. James Bond was Sean Connery when I was growing up. I copied him by going bald and speaking with a Scottish accent.

You have gone the whole hog, and tax exiled yourself too , I hope..👍🏼

 

[mudsticks]

It's where I went wrong. James Bond was Sean Connery when I was growing up. I copied him by going bald and speaking with a Scottish accent.

I just fell under the spell of Diana Rigg..

Never looked back since