Anti-vaxxers going too far?

PaulB

Regular
People too far from the frontline shouldn't be allowed to spread their ignorant nonsense because it is so damaging. https://www.theguardian.com/society...e-strain-on-hospitals-is-visible-and-visceral
A consultant at a major hospital send us this dispatch from the actual frontline and it doesn't make comfortable reading.

The horrors these people are seeing is compounded and made many times worse by the unvaccinated causing the inevitable deaths of genuinely ill patients whose conditions have worsened or developed (GI cancers amongst them) because the unvaccinated have been getting Covid and being prioritised due to their nearness to death. The staff are outraged at this selfish attitude. I think it's like Jehovah's Witnesses' refusal of blood due to their interpretation of their holy book leading to unnecessary deaths amongst their number but this on a much larger scale.
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
People too far from the frontline shouldn't be allowed to spread their ignorant nonsense because it is so damaging. https://www.theguardian.com/society...e-strain-on-hospitals-is-visible-and-visceral
A consultant at a major hospital send us this dispatch from the actual frontline and it doesn't make comfortable reading.

The horrors these people are seeing is compounded and made many times worse by the unvaccinated causing the inevitable deaths of genuinely ill patients whose conditions have worsened or developed (GI cancers amongst them) because the unvaccinated have been getting Covid and being prioritised due to their nearness to death. The staff are outraged at this selfish attitude. I think it's like Jehovah's Witnesses' refusal of blood due to their interpretation of their holy book leading to unnecessary deaths amongst their number but this on a much larger scale.

Perhaps, it is time to with-hold treatment from the unvaccinated (unless they have a medical reason)? I believe there is precedence for such a move (eg smokers, the obese). Be a brave Politician who advocates it however.
 
Perhaps, it is time to with-hold treatment from the unvaccinated (unless they have a medical reason)? I believe there is precedence for such a move (eg smokers, the obese). Be a brave Politician who advocates it however.

Treatment is (AIUI) withheld from smokers or the obese where smoking and obesity significantly reduce chance of the treatment's chance of success - coronary by pass surgery may be an example. That's quite different to refusing treatment to somebody already critically ill. I don't think smokers with even quite advanced lung cancer would be refused.

Turning vaccine refusers away would conflict with medical ethics and I suspect doctors, even if threatened with sanction, would refuse to implement such a provision. There are also, almost certainly, European Convention rights in play.

Politically it would only be days, maybe hours, before the media latched onto a loved, photogenic and personable refuser. The resultant political shitstorm would be non survivable.
 

Unkraut

Regular
A consultant at a major hospital send us this dispatch from the actual frontline and it doesn't make comfortable reading.
There is precisely the same kind of anger amongst hospital staff on this side of the Channel. Hospitals clogged up by people who do not need to be there. Operations now being postponed.
Perhaps, it is time to with-hold treatment from the unvaccinated ...
I don't think it would be ethical to withhold treatment, but it would be right when choices have to be made as to who gets treated to put unvaccinated covid cases lower on the list. They have, in effect, chosen to take the risk of being ill or even dying.

Boris Palmer, outspoken Green mayor of Tübingen has suggested those refusing vaccination should be allowed to sign a legal statement releasing the healthcare system from an obligation to treat them if they become infected and ill. This was jumped on as not being right, and although I don't like it I don't see anything that wrong with it. At some point you have to allow people who choose to believe myths and conspiracy theories to reap what they have sown, all the more so if they are taking down others with them.

Unless the vaccination rate can be increased to at least 90%, if not 95%, waves 5 and 6 will be hard to avoid.
 

PaulB

Regular
This is very, very serious now. The sight of johnson on last night's television was too tragic to be laughable. The state of the clinics out there today are an indication of just how stupid it was.

To go on TV on a Sunday night in a desperate attempt to be seen as 'statesmanlike' and authoritative has created a total mess.

No time for preparation, no consultation with the front-line workers, no checking on whether the resources were there to meet his promises (they're not).

This has led to clinics and vaccination hubs being overwhelmed, the very high demand for lateral flow tests means they've ran out and there are none left, people are being asked to call back tomorrow to try and book their boosters because of the rush and we're less than three hours into day one!

'Tis the season to be jolly after all!
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Treatment is (AIUI) withheld from smokers or the obese where smoking and obesity significantly reduce chance of the treatment's chance of success - coronary by pass surgery may be an example. That's quite different to refusing treatment to somebody already critically ill. I don't think smokers with even quite advanced lung cancer would be refused.

Turning vaccine refusers away would conflict with medical ethics and I suspect doctors, even if threatened with sanction, would refuse to implement such a provision. There are also, almost certainly, European Convention rights in play.

Politically it would only be days, maybe hours, before the media latched onto a loved, photogenic and personable refuser. The resultant political shitstorm would be non survivable.

Agreed.
 

Johnno260

New Member
Just take your vaccine & shut up!

That's the best excuse you have? force? no one has forced anyone if you don't want it don't take it, but equally don't cry when YOUR choice means you may be excluded from parts of society that YOUR choice affected.

No vaccines efficacy is ever 100% that's a total straw man, and dishonest, it does reduce your chances of catching it and therefore transmitting it, and it also reduces you chances of ending up in ICU.

The choice is yours but the more people vaccinated gives the virus less vectors of possible transmission, if you get infected while vaccinated and your body deals with it, it's a case closed, letting it replicate and mutate inside a host and we get to repeat this cycle for the foreseeable future.

Equally if you don't take it don't complain when restrictions are imposed, as you have taken an active role in prolonging the situation.
 

Johnno260

New Member
Should the right of protest include going to a private address, occupied at the time by a lone woman, and handing over pseudo-legal documents?

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...after-anti-vaccine-protesters-target-his-home

Or should they be arrested for harassment?

How would you react to being given one of these letters at your house?

these are the same plebs server papers to NHS trusts for Nuremburg code breaches, which the vaccine doesn't breach, they also quote the magna carta and law of the land, while actually not knowing what the term means as they're clowns that forgot to wear their uniforms that day.


View: https://twitter.com/shayan86/status/1450847697892696086?s=21
 
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Hitchington

Colossal Member
these are the same plebs server papers to NHS trusts for Nuremburg code breaches, which the vaccine doesn't breach, they also quote the magna carta and law of the land, while actually not knowing what the term means as they're clowns that forgot to wear their uniforms that day.


View: https://twitter.com/shayan86/status/1450847697892696086?s=21

To be filed... straight in the bin.

What a bunch of dickheads.
 

Johnno260

New Member
Speaking of dickheads...


the reclaim party? oh dear, if plebs like this get in I would be on the first Eurostar out of here.

Also a total straw man he picked the most vulnerable businesses that are struggling with the online onslaught anyway, check most high streets pre pandemic and it featured so many closed stores, Hailsham in East Sussex most of the small stores were boarded up, all the small green grocers and butchers have been disappearing for years, along with milkmen etc

Basically another dishonest dipstick.
 
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Treatment is (AIUI) withheld from smokers or the obese where smoking and obesity significantly reduce chance of the treatment's chance of success - coronary by pass surgery may be an example. That's quite different to refusing treatment to somebody already critically ill. I don't think smokers with even quite advanced lung cancer would be refused.
That is something else, it's akin to trying to save someone's life while he/she/they has an knife on his wrist and insists it is his right to do so,.
Turning vaccine refusers away would conflict with medical ethics and I suspect doctors, even if threatened with sanction, would refuse to implement such a provision. There are also, almost certainly, European Convention rights in play.
Yet Austria already has a mandoritory vaccine programme(believe it comes in force in Januari) and other eu countries are well on their way.
I'm fully vaccinated, going for the booster thing soon but i think making it mandoritory is wrong on many levels.
 
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