Angela Rayner was spot on.

farfromtheland

Regular AND Goofy
enjoy opposition

Well I'm only a month late so I hope forgivable for resurrecting this old chestnut. Another terse comment but on point.

Except for the Thatcher years, for most of my life parliamentary government has consisted of passing the baton when the going gets tough, with similar overall objectives. Cameron was a big admirer of Tony Blair for example. Starmer is now the opportunist compromise candidate who was supposed to reconcile right and left wings of Labour, and promptly left out the left wing.

There is so much bitchiness in and around left groups it is offensive, not only against Tories but also anyone who rocks a party boat. I think it is partly the fault of behaviourist education, causing a manipulative rather than reasoned approach to issues of power.

I would like to feel welcome to join the Labour party. Two of my good friend did a few years ago, and they both gave up with devious tactics rife even at local levels.

Real socialism is not like that.
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
.....

Real socialism is not like that.

Has "real socialism" actually been put into practice (ie as a Government) anywhere in the World?
 

farfromtheland

Regular AND Goofy
Has "real socialism" actually been put into practice (ie as a Government) anywhere in the World?
Not as a government no. It doesn't mesh with government as we currently use the word. I like the way the Zapatistas do things.

I said elsewhere I am a federalist, of the 'bottom up' organising kind. It is a big project. Some unions are working this way. The C.N.T. in Spain had a good go in 1936, and I think proved it could work, but the popular front and the Stalinists and other governments did for them. I think the approach to take is to organise as much as possible within but independent from the existing setup. Some co-ops do this pretty well. Others jump through hoops for funding and lose the plot.

We can use regional devolution to sidestep environmental exploitation by multi-national corporate capitalism, and as no Western government as we know it is willing to break that mould, yet it must be broken somehow, I am cautiously hopeful.
 

Salty seadog

Active Member
The way to get voters to vote for those with your views is to insult and abuse the electorate and call the voters thick, stupid, racist, dickheads etc?

Look how many elections and referendums those on the left have won in last 12 years whilst using those tactics

Insulting the people you need to vote is not a tactic that proves very successful
I'm not sure this a good thing.
 

matticus

Well-Known Member
The way to get voters to vote for those with your views is to insult and abuse the electorate and call the voters thick, stupid, racist, dickheads etc?

I would have thought the only people to be offended at being called "thick, stupid, racist, dickheads" are thick, stupid, racist, dickheads.

Maybe ... but right or not, those dickheads get the same number of votes each as you and I. Great isn't it?!
 

shep

Veteran
Maybe ... but right or not, those dickheads get the same number of votes each as you and I. Great isn't it?!
That's that democracy thing kicking in right there, where would you draw the line then I wonder?

Thick? Stupid? Dickhead or racist?

Who decides which category people fit into, people like on here?
 

matticus

Well-Known Member
That's that democracy thing kicking in right there,
Yup. And sadly for some, I think we're stuck with it!
 

Xipe Totec

Half man, half ant... ALL TERROR!
That's that democracy thing kicking in right there, where would you draw the line then I wonder?

Thick? Stupid? Dickhead or racist?

Who decides which category people fit into, people like on here?
In my experience those character traits tend not to occur in isolation.

Don't lose sleep over it.
 
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